GG#4 Autos not doing well

[DTOM420]

I had to leave town for work and a friend watered for me and I came home to problems. These are my Gorilla Glue [HASHTAG]#4[/HASHTAG] Autos in soil on day 37. The leaves have a kind of crinkle texture to them rather than being smooth. I was thinking Mg deficiency but I’m not sure. I gave them a Foliar application of Optic Foliar Overgrow (with Transport included) to no effect. Same with a very light Epsom salt drench - 1/4tsp in a gallon. I have not tested soil pH but I’ll try.to get to it today. I’m doing all organic and have a cover crop of flower growing and I hate to dig out soil for a slurry test, but I will.

The symptoms are plant wide, not isolated to top and bottom. Temps have been steady in the upper 70’s with RH generally 57%-64%, VPD - 1.2-1.5

Not sure if these leaves are part of the same They are low down and some of the clover cover crop has the same.

Maybe @Waira will have some idea.

 

[namvet25]

I would remove all non cannabis plants from the pot and start feeding bloom nutes along with cal/mag.

 

[DTOM420]

I would remove all non cannabis plants from the pot and start feeding bloom nutes along with cal/mag.

Thanks for the reply!

What is the deficiency, do you think? I’ve been providing Mg and Calcium and that’s not having any effect. The soil is pretty loaded with organic amendments and if really like to identify what the plant is lacking.

Why do you recommend removing the cover crop?

 

[AutoLowRyder]

I hate to dig out soil for a slurry test, but I will.

better to run through a half strength feed Ph'ed to 6.5................ collect 200ml of run off and check Ph, and Ec..........

you did not mention if you made the feed up before you went away ??.................. in which case the Ph will have rocketed above 7.................

if your mate made it up ?....................then it was to strong, and could be why the whole plant is affected......... a shot of the whole plant would be a better gauge of the sit rep........

you dont give cal/mag usually untill you are well into flower, as it's at early to mid flower when any cal/mag can show up, as the plant shifts it's biology to flower from veg, nute type and demand changes up to flowering.......

symptoms are plant wide

to me, the symptoms look like a massive x5 strength feed has been given at least for 4 watering's, may be more......how long was you away ?/.. did you leave specific instructions ?/......... or add hoc ??....... the large form leaf tip burn to a crisp is super nutrient toxicity................ i think your mate over did the feed, in frequency and potency................ bring the feed EC down to 0.7 nute only, and add some silicone at half a ml a litr to aid the recovery.................... bit early to start bloom feed. as you dont have flower frames built yet, so would keep the veg nute going during the nute burn episode recovery period, switch to flower nutes and a higher Ec say Ec0.9 plus you tap water Ec................. switch to flower nute when the flowers are 12-14mm across........ ensure the grow space is kept at 26c lights on and no lower than 24c lights off, due to soil temps that must be maintained...................... what did you tell your mate before you left ??........... re waterings ?/........ALR

 

[Waira]

'TOM, how ya doing mate?

Huh, that;s wierd as hell man, what a mix of symptoms,.. I can see why Mg came to mind, but more than a few things cause that interveinal yellowing,... it's that funky interveinal wasting and rapid dry out, leaving the dead tissue still green,...
If it was nute burn, you'd think the tips would show it more,...well, that one last pic does look nute burny!-- but the rest, no,.... could be something like a toxicity symptoms, it would explain why nothing has worked,... these can do all kinds of weird shit! But of what is the question, if it even is? ...Is this a custom soil, or bag soil, or both? Any feeds at all, or did you go for the "water only" type? .... I don't like this TOM, it's damned atypical, which puts me off my feeds,... ...any chance some salt got in there? Just a dart thrown out here,... And your ladysitter -- no funny bizz from them?

@AutoLowRyder hey mate, thank you again for your continued help here! .... so here it is again, like I had PM'ed you about: that interveinal wasting, like the mesophyll layer just died off suddenly..? Only this time the leaves are well up from soil level, no way could this be a pathogen?

 

[the green bandit]

This pic has my attention, I've had a similar thing on a couple of plants and can never figure it out............very interesting!!

 

[DTOM420]

better to run through a half strength feed Ph'ed to 6.5................ collect 200ml of run off and check Ph, and Ec..........

you did not mention if you made the feed up before you went away ??.................. in which case the Ph will have rocketed above 7.................

if your mate made it up ?....................then it was to strong, and could be why the whole plant is affected......... a shot of the whole plant would be a better gauge of the sit rep........

you dont give cal/mag usually untill you are well into flower, as it's at early to mid flower when any cal/mag can show up, as the plant shifts it's biology to flower from veg, nute type and demand changes up to flowering.......



to me, the symptoms look like a massive x5 strength feed has been given at least for 4 watering's, may be more......how long was you away ?/.. did you leave specific instructions ?/......... or add hoc ??....... the large form leaf tip burn to a crisp is super nutrient toxicity................ i think your mate over did the feed, in frequency and potency................ bring the feed EC down to 0.7 nute only, and add some silicone at half a ml a litr to aid the recovery.................... bit early to start bloom feed. as you dont have flower frames built yet, so would keep the veg nute going during the nute burn episode recovery period, switch to flower nutes and a higher Ec say Ec0.9 plus you tap water Ec................. switch to flower nute when the flowers are 12-14mm across........ ensure the grow space is kept at 26c lights on and no lower than 24c lights off, due to soil temps that must be maintained...................... what did you tell your mate before you left ??........... re waterings ?/........ALR

Thanks for the reply ALR! Only “feed” was water. Plain water. I have crappy tasting well water with extremely high TDS that I am now filtering through a HydroLogic RO system but it does overwhelm the system and I do not get 0ppm water. I sent it (filtered water) out for testing last month and the report from Logan Labs as well as the analysis from Aaron Crozier at PlantBrix (through KIS Organics) showed nothing indicating its unsuitable. Here are the two reports:





I have them growing in a soil I built and had ‘cooking’ for several months. It’s a living soil with plenty of biology in it. The idea was to do an organic water-only grow if possible. I have fed them with some aerated EWC teas. Although it’s been about 3 weeks since I did the last one. Temperatures have mainly been within the range you described.

I have not been pHing water because I’m not feeding ‘nutes’ and all the organic folks say not to worry about pH in an organic grow. Maybe the soil was still too hot even after 3 months? They seemed to be doing well for the first 4 weeks. I would have thought that a hot soil would have caused issues from the get-go and not arise several weeks into the grow.

 

[DTOM420]

'TOM, how ya doing mate?

Huh, that;s wierd as hell man, what a mix of symptoms,.. I can see why Mg came to mind, but more than a few things cause that interveinal yellowing,... it's that funky interveinal wasting and rapid dry out, leaving the dead tissue still green,...
If it was nute burn, you'd think the tips would show it more,...well, that one last pic does look nute burny!-- but the rest, no,.... could be something like a toxicity symptoms, it would explain why nothing has worked,... these can do all kinds of weird shit! But of what is the question, if it even is? ...Is this a custom soil, or bag soil, or both? Any feeds at all, or did you go for the "water only" type? .... I don't like this TOM, it's damned atypical, which puts me off my feeds,... ...any chance some salt got in there? Just a dart thrown out here,... And your ladysitter -- no funny bizz from them?

@AutoLowRyder hey mate, thank you again for your continued help here! .... so here it is again, like I had PM'ed you about: that interveinal wasting, like the mesophyll layer just died off suddenly..? Only this time the leaves are well up from soil level, no way could this be a pathogen?

Hey there Waira! My post to ALR May answer some of your questions. It’s a home made organic soil blend that I was hoping would be a water-only soil. Long story short...I over amended a batch with minerals and ended up tripling the batch to try and get those minerals correct. I opted to not add much NPK amendments to the enlarged batch for fear of making it too hot. So, I’ll be a little surprised if it’s crazy hot. Plus, I let it cook for more than 3 months to let it compost and cook down a bit. I have another batch of soil I mixed that I actually did correctly (a month ago) and I’m currently waiting on lab test results. Once I have those (hopefully this week) I’ll have a pretty good idea if that first batch is hot or not; because it was less heavily amended than the batch these three GG#4 are in.

Any chance this could be a pest problem? I found some insects in my worm bin that were identified as thrip larvae and possibly some root aphids. I sent pictures to Arbico Organics for ID and that’s what they said. I also had some beneficial predator mites in there, though. Since I had used some of those castings in my EWC tea, I treated my plants as well as the worm bin with Beauveria bassiana (Botaniguard) followed by beneficial nematodes for thrips and root aphids followed by another round of Botaniguard. I dont see any pests on leaves and I’ve only seen 1-2 gnat-like flying insects in the tent. But, I don’t know enough about pests to really know whether any of these symptoms could be pest related?

I finally got that water test done. The results are posted in the reply to ALR. That’s for my filtered RO water. The soil test I am currently waiting on was sent in with a raw well water sample as well. So, I should have that analysis done and available shortly. That filtered water seems to be just fine, though.

 

[AutoLowRyder]

showed nothing indicating its unsuitable

alkalinity at 44ppm is a low alkalinity for growing.................. i buffer my RO water with alkaline tap water, my tap water is 200ppm alkaline salts............ carbonate and bi carbonate's, plus chlorine and sodium.....

my zero salt RO is buffered to 150ppm with my highly alkaline tap water............. this helps to stabalize the Ph, and off sets the acidity of the nutrients added to the RO water........

your Ph from both results is bang on.......... your 44ppm total alkalinity is low..... (hanna Scale)

dont seem to be to bad the well water for growing, boron is high so i wouldn't drink to much of it,........... as it's high at 8ppm or 8mg/ltr = same thing.!!

That filtered water seems to be just fine, though

you need to add a alkaline salt buffer, to the RO, to make it suitable for culture, add alkaline water to 150-180ppm Ec 0.3................ to stabilize Ph, and buffer acidic nute when added............. ALR

 

[DTOM420]

alkalinity at 44ppm is a low alkalinity for growing.................. i buffer my RO water with alkaline tap water, my tap water is 200ppm alkaline salts............ carbonate and bi carbonate's, plus chlorine and sodium.....

my zero salt RO is buffered to 150ppm with my highly alkaline tap water............. this helps to stabalize the Ph, and off sets the acidity of the nutrients added to the RO water........

your Ph from both results is bang on.......... your 44ppm total alkalinity is low..... (hanna Scale)
View attachment 1050085

dont seem to be to bad the well water for growing, boron is high so i wouldn't drink to much of it,........... as it's high at 8ppm or 8mg/ltr = same thing.!!



you need to add a alkaline salt buffer, to the RO, to make it suitable for culture, add alkaline water to 150-180ppm Ec 0.3................ to stabilize Ph, and buffer acidic nute when added............. ALR

Thanks ALR! Can you explain how I “add a alkaline salt buffer to the RO?” I mean, is that a additional unit to attach to the RO unit? Or are you saying to add some unfiltered well water to my RO water storage tank to increase the alkalinity? I have a 35 gallon tank that the RO unit keeps full and we pull our drinking/cooking water and cannabis growing water from. As soon as we use some the float valve opens and the RO replaces the water we took. I’m not sure how I’d be able to add water to the tank and maintain a particular ppm or EC.

If I’m not feeding any bottled (acidic) nutes, is this as important?

I should be getting the new test results (on the straight, unfiltered well water) today and I’ll post them in here. I wish we had another water source but a well is all we have here and it was $15k to drill and put in. So, it is what it is.