flushed last week, now this...

[ms48130]

I have 4 plants under grow right now

Girl Scout Cookies Auto 11.5 wks
White Widow Auto 11.5 wks
Jack Herer Auto, 9.5 wks
JillyBean Photo 10.5 wks

I flushed last week using GH FloraKleen then returned to a rather light nutrient schedule. However, all my plants (except for the Jack Herer) are now exhibiting a similar trait:



I'm running AN nutes in Coco, which makes the whole pH management AND PPM management a bit of a challenge, although I try and keep some tabs on it. The AN base nutes move my pH to 5.8 regardless of where it started (typ about 7.0, R/O water). The PPM of my solution tends to run between 550-600, so not too heavy. I have a HLG 100 V2 (95W) LED on the last two plants listed, and a ViparSpectra XS1500 (150W) LED on the first two plants. Since it's affecting three of the four plants, I don't think the lights are the factor (other than the plants are close to the lights, like 3-4 inches). I'm getting some breathing room on the GSC and WW as I moved my tent and installed the "riser kit" for my Gorilla Shorty tent; I got another 10-11" out of it!

Any thoughts? I'm sure I'm headed for another flush, but I SURE would like to learn what's taking my plants here!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

That looks like a classic potassium deficiency but what is causing it?

Please fill in this form: (copy and paste part is below, this first one tell what specifically to include)

-Problem: (brief description)
-Medium/grow method: soil; soilless-- coco, or peat based like Promix, etc. (please provide the actual product name); DWC, NFT, etc.
-Feed and supplements used: include brand, dosage/strength, frequency of feeding and watering (alone); method-- by hand, drippers, rercirc' or drain-to-waste,... N-P-K #'s too if you can!
-Water source: RO/DI; tap- dechlorinated-?..... EC or TDS reading; pH (don't bother with this on RO/DI, do bother with TDS/EC though to confirm it's working well enough)
-Strain and age
-Climate: night and day ambient T and RH%; res' temperatures; any extremes in T/RH% exposure
- Light used: HID, LED, COB, combo of,... wattage; light cycle hours (20/4, 18/6 , etc.); distance to tops....
-Additional info: PH in the root zone. How long have the plants been affected?...How fast did symptoms appear?... Anything else you think might be relevant..

--Pictures including WHOLE PLANT PICS, and troubled leaves.. use normal light or flash as other light sources ruin color rendering, critical for diagnostics! Turn off the grow lights.

✂ - - - - - - - - - - -
(copy and paste)-->

Problem:

Medium/grow method:

Feed: and supplements used:

water source:

PH in the root zone:

Strain/age:

light used:

Climate:

Additional info:

 

[ms48130]

That looks like a classic potassium deficiency but what is causing it?

Please fill in this form: (copy and paste part is below, this first one tell what specifically to include)

-Problem: (brief description)
-Medium/grow method: soil; soilless-- coco, or peat based like Promix, etc. (please provide the actual product name); DWC, NFT, etc.
-Feed and supplements used: include brand, dosage/strength, frequency of feeding and watering (alone); method-- by hand, drippers, rercirc' or drain-to-waste,... N-P-K #'s too if you can!
-Water source: RO/DI; tap- dechlorinated-?..... EC or TDS reading; pH (don't bother with this on RO/DI, do bother with TDS/EC though to confirm it's working well enough)
-Strain and age
-Climate: night and day ambient T and RH%; res' temperatures; any extremes in T/RH% exposure
- Light used: HID, LED, COB, combo of,... wattage; light cycle hours (20/4, 18/6 , etc.); distance to tops....
-Additional info: PH in the root zone. How long have the plants been affected?...How fast did symptoms appear?... Anything else you think might be relevant..

--Pictures including WHOLE PLANT PICS, and troubled leaves.. use normal light or flash as other light sources ruin color rendering, critical for diagnostics! Turn off the grow lights.

✂ - - - - - - - - - - -

Problem: Brown leaf tips, some green/yellow veining

Medium/grow method: Batch64's Fortified Micro Blend Coco

Feed: and supplements used: Advanced Nutrients
PH Perfect Sensi Coco (base) 2ml/L
AN BigBud 1ml/L
AN Overdrive 1ml/L
AN SensiZym 1ml/L
AN Bud Candy 1ml/L

Hand watering 2x daily

pre-feed, ph 5.8, ppm 598
runoff:
1. ph 5.9, ppm 736
2. ph 5.9, ppm 863
3. ph 6.1, ppm 726
4. ph 6.0, ppm 809

water source: R/O, 7.0PPM

PH in the root zone: no soil meter available. runoff ph 5.8-6.1

Strain/age:
1. Girl Scout Cookies Auto 11.5 wks
2. White Widow Auto 11.5 wks
3. Jack Herer Auto, 9.5 wks
4. JillyBean Photo 10.5 wks

light used:
1 & 2 above: ViparSpectra XS1500 150W LED
3 & 4 above: HLG 100 V2 95W LED

Climate:
1 & 2 above: 86*F day, 83*F night, Avg RH 50%
3 & 4 above: 81*F day, 78*F night, Avg RH 54%

Pics
1


2


3


4

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I think you are having some problems with too much long term minerals in the Batch64's Fortified Micro Blend Coco and Advanced Nutrients Coco nutrients. Advanced nutrients is designed to be run in Coco only. So it is feeding the same nutrients that are in the 64's blend. The dark green color tells me you have lots of fertilizer in the pot but something is locking the potassium and magnesium a little bit. You probably have too much potassium - coco has it's own so it is easy to over do it. It is very difficult at this stage of growth to keep the girls totally happy. Your plant do not look that bad!

I never pass a teaching moment so...............

Big Bud (Coco)? is not on the list for week 5

You are missing B52, B vitamins strengthen a plants immune system and helps them stay healthy.

It is not that bad so don't do anything radical.

 

[ms48130]

I think you are having some problems with too much long term minerals in the Batch64's Fortified Micro Blend Coco and Advanced Nutrients Coco nutrients. Advanced nutrients is designed to be run in Coco only. So it is feeding the same nutrients that are in the 64's blend. The dark green color tells me you have lots of fertilizer in the pot but something is locking the potassium and magnesium a little bit. You probably have too much potassium - coco has it's own so it is easy to over do it. It is very difficult at this stage of growth to keep the girls totally happy. Your plant do not look that bad!

I never pass a teaching moment so...............

View attachment 1243953

Big Bud (Coco)? is not on the list for week 5

View attachment 1243954

You are missing B52, B vitamins strengthen a plants immune system and helps them stay healthy.

It is not that bad so don't do anything radical.

I do have some B52, and I'll drop out the Big Bud. Sure wish the AN folks would provide the NPKs for each product so we know which is directly creating the excess...

thanks!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I do have some B52, and I'll drop out the Big Bud. Sure wish the AN folks would provide the NPKs for each product so we know which is directly creating the excess...

thanks!

I agree, I ran into that with all of the big name nutrients. Secret Sauce. That is why I have and continue to study plant nutrition. It really can be quite complex but there are some simple rules. The Bio-Stimulants are not needed for a plant to grow they just help it grow better. Kelp, Humic Acid, B-Vitamins.

Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen come from the water and air. The other 13 we need to be concerned with are in this chart. If each element is within the stated range then the nutrient solution is in "Balance". Notice that there is a large range on some of the elements and that these are elemental PPM and not what you measure with EC.

 

[ms48130]

I agree, I ran into that with all of the big name nutrients. Secret Sauce. That is why I have and continue to study plant nutrition. It really can be quite complex but there are some simple rules. The Bio-Stimulants are not needed for a plant to grow they just help it grow better. Kelp, Humic Acid, B-Vitamins.

Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen come from the water and air. The other 13 we need to be concerned with are in this chart. If each element is within the stated range then the nutrient solution is in "Balance". Notice that there is a large range on some of the elements and that these are elemental PPM and not what you measure with EC.

View attachment 1243993

Thanks!

Since you've tried many of the major nute lines, how legitimate do you think their feeding schedules are? I'm not asking about the ratios, as I'm sure they are right on, but what about the dilutions? For the AN line, I'm running approx 50% of their recommended strength, and the girls seem to be doing (mostly) OK. Not sure if I should be increasing strength (60%? 70%? other %??) or just stick with the 50% I've been running.

Your wisdom is appreciated!!!

 

[ms48130]

After the last discussion I thought it might be helpful to post a chart that I have assembled on the NPK values for Advanced Nutrients products. Most are from websites selling the products, a few from what seem to be knowledgeable folks posting the values. If empty, there seemingly are no NPK values for this formulation. Sorry for the table/column width, I can't see how to change it here...

Advanced Nutrients Product	N-P-K
Grow	1-1-6
Micro	4-0-0
Bloom	0-5-4
Connoisseur Grow A	4-0-0
Connoisseur Grow B	1-2-7
Connoisseur Bloom A	3-0-0
Connoisseur Bloom B	2-4-10
Connoisseur Grow Coco A	???
Connoisseur Grow Coco B	???
Connoisseur Bloom Coco A	???
Connoisseur Bloom Coco B	???
Sensi Grow A	3-0-0
Sensi Grow B	1-2-6
Sensi Bloom A	3-0-0
Sensi Bloom B	2-4-8
Sensi Coco Grow A	3-0-0
Sensi Coco Grow B	1-2-4
Sensi Coco Bloom A	4-0-0
Sensi Coco Bloom B	0-4-5
VooDoo
Big Bud	0-1-3
Big Bud Coco
B-52	2-1-4
Overdrive	1-5-4
SensiZym
Bud Ignitor	0-1-2
Bud Candy
FlawlessFinish
RhinoSkin	0-0-13
Sensi Cal-Mag Xtra
Revive	1.5-0-0

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I have followed all of the Vendor Charts completely and I do not mix brands. I start at 25% strength week 1, 50% week2 and then add 10% more each week until a tiny bit of tip burn shows up then back off 10%.

Most of the big vendors spend millions of dollars with top PHds developing their lines. Take advantage of that and use their systems they way they designed them.

I think all of the big name brands are all overpriced - 13 basic nutrients and Bio-Stimulants is all there is. GreenLeaf 2 part Mega Crop, Kelp, Humic Acid, B-vitamins, aminos, AminA, and Dry molasses is all I use. I have NPK Industries Raw products on the shelf in case I need to bump my nutrients in one direction or another. I have not used anything extra in my current grow.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

After the last discussion I thought it might be helpful to post a chart that I have assembled on the NPK values for Advanced Nutrients products. Most are from websites selling the products, a few from what seem to be knowledgeable folks posting the values. If empty, there seemingly are no NPK values for this formulation. Sorry for the table/column width, I can't see how to change it here...

Advanced Nutrients Product	N-P-K
Grow	1-1-6
Micro	4-0-0
Bloom	0-5-4
Connoisseur Grow A	4-0-0
Connoisseur Grow B	1-2-7
Connoisseur Bloom A	3-0-0
Connoisseur Bloom B	2-4-10
Connoisseur Grow Coco A	???
Connoisseur Grow Coco B	???
Connoisseur Bloom Coco A	???
Connoisseur Bloom Coco B	???
Sensi Grow A	3-0-0
Sensi Grow B	1-2-6
Sensi Bloom A	3-0-0
Sensi Bloom B	2-4-8
Sensi Coco Grow A	3-0-0
Sensi Coco Grow B	1-2-4
Sensi Coco Bloom A	4-0-0
Sensi Coco Bloom B	0-4-5
VooDoo
Big Bud	0-1-3
Big Bud Coco
B-52	2-1-4
Overdrive	1-5-4
SensiZym
Bud Ignitor	0-1-2
Bud Candy
FlawlessFinish
RhinoSkin	0-0-13
Sensi Cal-Mag Xtra
Revive	1.5-0-0

This is good information but the other ingredients they do not tell you are just as important.