First Pass Effect: Please simplify for me

[olderthandirt]

I've read the threads.
I've read the Wiki.
I've read it all it seems and I'm still not quite sure I appreciate the first pass effect as it relates to ingesting canna products.

Responses MUST be in the *KISS format cuz I be a simple fella.

Empty stomach, the hepatic system isn't that awful busy.
Ingest the cannabis product and a great portion is acted on by the liver before it makes it to systemic circulation.

Full stomach, the hepatic system is occupied.
Ingest the cannabis product, and a great portion bypasses the liver and goes straight on into systemic circulation.

Is this about right?
If so what are the ramifications of each scenario. One is more psychoactive then t'other?

Also, ramification of each scenario as it pertains to using de-carbed as opposed to erm..... non- de-carbed.

Thankee!

*KISS
Keep It Simple Stoner

 

[Root]

Edibles on an empty stomach will have quicker and more intense effects.
On a full stomach the effects take longer and are not as intense.

That would be the standard answer for decarbed edibles and the psycho-activity being the effect.
I assume the same would be true for un decarbed material, but the effect is not psychoactive.

I've also read that eating food with high fat along with the edible helps with absorption.
"At Monash University in Australia, scientists wondered why you get higher when you eat your "edibles" with a high fat meal. They used both humans and dogs to see how this worked with a synthetic cannabinoid- CRA 13 which, like THC, mixes easily with fats.

The hungry dogs' bodies absorbed the CRA13, but only 8 to 20% could be used. Fed dogs were able to use 47.5% of the CRA13 and absorbed most of it through their guts. It doesn't look like the fed dogs absorbed more. Instead, they think the dogs' bodies were too busy digesting everything and missed absorbing most of the CRA13 until it was in their guts. The dogs' guts sent it right into the lymphatic system where the active CRA13 spreads through their bodies and got them high. In hungry dogs bodies, most of the CRA13 was absorbed right off the bat in the stomach and then was sent directly to the liver where it was changed into inactive byproducts, resulting in less of a high.


So eat your "edibles" with a high fat meal. It may take a bit longer, but the high will be better. If you eat it while hungry, much of the THC will go through your liver and it get changed to something else. If your stomach is "busy" with other foods, the THC will get absorbed in your guts and bypass the liver, going into the lymph system and through your body.

Granny

"
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I will not argue with Granny Storm Crow, but we typically make edibles with high fat solvents (ie. butter, coconut oil, milk) so we are already have the high fat going and shouldn't (?) need more.

with more reading.....
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_someone_provide_a_simple_explanation_for_the_1st_pass_effect
"First-pass metabolism refers to the 'first passage' of drug through the liver, after absorption from the GI tract.
If the major proportion of an active drug is converted to inactive metabolites then the effect of first-pass will markedly reduce the effect of the drug and the oral dose may have to be increased or an alternative route of admistration chosen.

However, if the drug is is a pro-drug, that is inactive until it has been metabolised to active metabolites, first-pass metabolism may actually increase the activity and reduce the time to onset of effects compared to other routes of administration.

Furthermore, drugs may be metabolised by the gastric mucosa before they have even reached the liver. Any form of metabolism which results in less drug reaching the circulation may be referred to as 'pre-systemic' metabolism. Pre-systemic metaboilsm includes first-pass metabolism."
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Cannabinoids in their acid form (THCA) would be inactive and need to be activated. Which is what the liver does.

Sorry, not very KISS like.
And not everybody gets the same effect from the same thing.

 

[olderthandirt]

... Cannabinoids in their acid form (THCA) would be inactive and need to be activated. Which is what the liver does.

Sorry, not very KISS like.
And not everybody gets the same effect from the same thing.

And it be @Root to the rescue of course.
Dunno, considering the subject matter I'd say that was pert near as KISS-like as could be hoped for.

I thought I had the gist of it Root, thanks for the confirmation (-:

As for the the whys and wherefores of the effects the liver has on the acid form of cannabinoids, more re-reading is on tap.
I've glanced at articles about this aspect, now I'll go back through and actual read em'!

ETA: Well actually, now I'm headed for the morning coffee and tincture.... before I eat (-;

 

[Root]

Tintctures aren't affected by first pass

I've been looking into cannabinoids in their acid form vs decarbed, not only in topicals but in oil for ingesting too.
I've found that with topicals there is a different effect on healing wounds.
Undecarbed salves heal wounds faster.
Decarbed salves seem to work better on body pain.
With the coconut oil infusions for ingesting, undecarbed helps 2 of my customers with really bad psoriasis (healing from the inside out).
While the decarbed seems to work better on pain.

And there is a similar difference with tinctures.

I'm not saying that decarbed products only work on pain, cancer is a good example...of using decarbed material IMO.

 

[olderthandirt]

Tintctures aren't affected by first pass .....

Dohp!

I sure appreciate that there's someone on the forum keeping a lookout for us "simple" folk (-: