First Grow. Which def's are running the show? Flowering but sick. Adios yield.

[massgrass]

Problem: Going yellow from the bottom to the top. During Bloom. : (

Medium/grow method: Nectar for the Gods Number 4 Soil. Amended with GBD Super Soil. Bottom half of pots amended, top half straight Number 4.
Method: As organic as possible, natural as possible.

Feed: and supplements used: Water only at first. Then started GO CaMg+ 1t / G to see if it would help twisty Mazar / curly SC tips. Seemed to help the Sour Crack. Mazars looked like Ca deficiency.(thank you jingo)AM problem started first, before SC. Switched to Elemental from Roots Organics cause it had more Ca and Mg. Using at ½ strength last 2 waterings.

I brewed an aerated ewc compost molasses tea and gave some to everyone last week. My The White Train seemed to like it. It still looks mint, so I think that went ok. Mazars were already looking beat up . Crack problem came on strong and fast in the last 3 days or so.

I have been giving a foliar spray of the 1\2 Strength Elemental for the last couple days. Yucca showed up today (for less beading.)

No other nutes. GBD Super Soil sposta be H²Only. (Maybe CaMg if necessary)

I have some sample bloom nutes on hand for an emergency if need be. T
Aurora Innovations
SOUL INFINITY
NPK / 0.5 - 2 - 1
SOUL BLOOM
NPK / 1 - 4 - 3.

water source: Boogie Blue Plus filtered tap. Said to remove Chloramine and Chlorine. Then it sits out 48 hours. Now I'm oxygenating it too. EC:3 (4 with CaMg), Ph:8.1. I had read organic soil should help buffer ph to some extent. Having said that, I started adjusting to 6.3 last night. Runoff was 7.2-7.3 after I watered last night.

Strain/age: Sour Crack: Day 39
Auto Mazar : Day 47
The White Train. : Day 31

light used: Johnson Grow Lights CX-9. 9x Citizen CLU048 1212 . Meanwell. 535W. 3500K. Stationary, 71" above floor. ±32" above tallest plant. Recently moved up light upon manuf. recommendation of 30" (!) above canopy. Mazar had been closer than that up till that time.

Climate: Generally steady lately . 48-59% rh. 72-81°F.

Additional info : Problems were "moderate" before bloom. Curling tips on SC. Twisting tips on Mazars. Couple "off" lower leaves, on Mazars,(Yellowing, spots) Was working on those symptoms with CaMg+. Mazars came on strong with flowers at first, pistils popping up nicely. Baby buds. Then, like overnight, Mazars turned yellow. Bud development stopped, which is breaking my heart Pistils tips started
drying out. Vertical has basically stopped since 5/7. Im no expert, but they (AM's) look near death.

AM and SC never had the vibrant green of TWT. But they are my first plants ever, so I didn't have a point of reference.

RED topped petioles are prevalent in both SC & AM. TWT ( The White Train) just showed one starting. One TWT leaf tip slightly clawed. On the edge of my seat with that honey.

SC been cranking out flowers for a bit, then same thing. More gradual yellowing from bottom up. SC still pushing up some nice flowers and frost though. Yum.

I have The White Train at day +-31 (4/15). Healthiest mamacita in the tent. More vibrant green during development than AM or SC. Shot up fast. Flowering now. Looking good. Got CaMg from birth, others did not. I cringe every time I look in the tent, fearing she will sh*t the bed like the others. Also, AM & SC were victims of climate abuse at the beginning, all showing heat stress until I got my thermostat switch for my radiator, and cranked my exhaust.. TWT had an idyllic upbringing. 45-60% rh, 76-81°F mostly.

I had 3 consecutive days of power failure ( 2 breaker, 1 loose timer plug, I guess.) in the last week.
F* me.
Dark. Temperature dropped to 65, humidity up to 90%.

Feel free to check my diary to see how the symptoms presented themselves in . I will answer any questions ASAP.

I hope the pictures are helpful. The camera seems to diminish the yellow, I think.

Thank you all for taking a minute to check this out.

I am going to keep at this till I get it down. Challenges just make me want it more.



Pictures are labeled best as possible with ltd. character count. Lol

Lemme know whatcha think. I value the opinions here at afn.

Jah Strength
mg

https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/59051/

check out my first grow. [emoji271]

 

[Waira]

... setting aside the usual normal yellowing of lowers at this stage, I'd say there significant P defc. happening, possibly S too, on AM2 especially (top to bottom yellowing, tops worst),... I know the gig with the Mephisto soil, and usually it's solid, but nothing is foolproof! No matter what, monitoring in-pot pH is essential, and the only way to do that properly is with a quality soil pH probe (Accurate 8, Blue Labs),... the question that needs be answered is if your soil is off-pH enough to cause a lock-out, or if this is a simple lack-of type defc's,... I'm concerned about the water EC; is that really 3, or 0.3 (1.0EC = 500 ppm)-- I'm assuming it's 0.3! however, your pH is high for that EC,.. have you calibrated your meter lately? You'll need at least 7.0 solution, better to have two points, so get 4.0pH as well,... good that you're pH'ing down! Still, that high run-off pH is not good, even if run-off is dunbious for pH accuracy, it gives a very general idea about the pH in there,...
Tip claw looks like a hot spot of N was hit,... ditto for tip burn, with other nutes,... not unusual, and different strains will vary widely in their tolerances and preferences with nutes,.. with this set-up, there's nothing to do but let them grind it out, no flushing unless it's a 100% shit-show red alert emergency!
It's not to far into bloom for a epsom salt (MgSO4) foliar spray, 1tsp/qt, with a wetting agent, tops and bottoms of leaves, away from direct light until dry,... if your in-pot pH is really that high, you may start seeing other defc's starting, namely Zn and Fe which lock-out fast around 7.0.,...

 

[massgrass]

... setting aside the usual normal yellowing of lowers at this stage, I'd say there significant P defc. happening, possibly S too, on AM2 especially (top to bottom yellowing, tops worst),... I know the gig with the Mephisto soil, and usually it's solid, but nothing is foolproof! No matter what, monitoring in-pot pH is essential, and the only way to do that properly is with a quality soil pH probe (Accurate 8, Blue Labs),... the question that needs be answered is if your soil is off-pH enough to cause a lock-out, or if this is a simple lack-of type defc's,... I'm concerned about the water EC; is that really 3, or 0.3 (1.0EC = 500 ppm)-- I'm assuming it's 0.3! however, your pH is high for that EC,.. have you calibrated your meter lately? You'll need at least 7.0 solution, better to have two points, so get 4.0pH as well,... good that you're pH'ing down! Still, that high run-off pH is not good, even if run-off is dunbious for pH accuracy, it gives a very general idea about the pH in there,...
Tip claw looks like a hot spot of N was hit,... ditto for tip burn, with other nutes,... not unusual, and different strains will vary widely in their tolerances and preferences with nutes,.. with this set-up, there's nothing to do but let them grind it out, no flushing unless it's a 100% shit-show red alert emergency!
It's not to far into bloom for a epsom salt (MgSO4) foliar spray, 1tsp/qt, with a wetting agent, tops and bottoms of leaves, away from direct light until dry,... if your in-pot pH is really that high, you may start seeing other defc's starting, namely Zn and Fe which lock-out fast around 7.0.,...

Hello there Waira.

Pleased meet you.
A warm and genuine thank you for showing interest in my case.


Yes, a lot of defs in the house were leading me to consider lock out too.

The equipment you suggested happens to be just what I have here in the Conservatory. How fortuitous.

I cleaned and calibrated (4&7) the ph pen.
Shined up the Control Wizard.
And calibrated the EC meter.

Data just came back.

Bluelab:

Tap H²O: ph: 7.7.
ec: 0.3(!) not 3.0 as purported. My bad. Lol...
AACT bubblin' away, using tomorrow. h: also 7.7

Control Wizard: ph:

MBAP: 6.3 seedling
AM1: 6.8
AM2: 6.3 (!) Not locked out? Anomaly. Took reading twice.
SC1: 6.8
SC2: 6.7
TWT:6.8 (!) Baby please don't go!
AL1: 6.5 (auto livers) seedling. Dwarf. Being Replaced w AL2. Soon.

The seedlings are showing decent ph so far. Leading me to consider the soil is coming out of bag ok. Ph must creep up incrementally with time / water.

My tea will be ready tomorrow, but I think I'm going to have to pH it to like 6, even if I lose some microherd in the brew. I can't see adding anything to them that isn't contributing to the pH solution.

You recommended epsom salts for foliar.( I got yucca for coverage.)

Could I spray with one of my 2 CaMg supplements, or would you prefer I grab the salts?

Thank you again, brother Waira, I really appreciate your time.



Jah Strength
mg

https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/59051/

check out my first grow. [emoji271]

 

[Scar17]

I see those blue pens and I see hundred dollar bills!

 

[epenguin]

Oh it makes me glad I am from the keep it simple camp. But, I take my hat off to you and guru @Waira for the astonishing efforts you pioneers put into our hobby. You do push the barriers of what is possible with Autos.
Good for you.

Me......soil, basic nutes and a decent harvest..............happy penguin.............Go fer it my good chums...........eP.

 

[Waira]

your quite welcome mate! And what a spread of Goods- You are as set as they get! ...and thank you for providing all the helpful details...
..pretty much all good news, nothing really out of whack at all, just a few over 6.5pH, but not into the 7's,.. it shows, as I don't see tell-tale Fe/Zn defc.'s showing on the newest growth (these are immobile within the plant once in established tissues, so can't be translocated to new growth),... your water is very nice and soft too, so I'm puzzled at the higher 6's pH? A lot of lime source can cause this, and strongly resist adjustment down,... How much Ca-Mg has been going in? -noted, on the Elemental,... have you been pH adjusting the water/nute solution? With no acidic nutes/fert's going in, this will also allow the pH to creep up over time,.. Oh, with that soft water, I see now why your pH is oddly high after Ca-Mg goes in! Any water that has low ppm hardness will be more prone to big pH swings from even small inputs,... adjust your inputs for those higher pH pots down to low 6's, and see if that helps over time,..
Can you get some PK booster nutes, or reg. bloom? Bottled organic stuff would be fine, but a little synthetic isn't going to lay waste to the herd! do you use inoculants? What's in your tea? Getting your P input up is the goal here, extra K won't hurt either,...
For foliar, and getting S in there just in case that's part of the problem, epsoms (MgSO4) is the ticket, readily absorbed,... great on the wetting agent! Be sure to get bottom of leaves especially, as more stomata are there,.. do this early lights-on if you can, but keep them out of direct intense light until dry,... re-wet with plain water to help get a second helping in there, and clean the leaves some,...

eP chum, you know,.. right tool for the right job!

 

[massgrass]

I see those blue pens and I see hundred dollar bills!

Can't live with 'em
Can't live without 'em
Lol
$$$

What's Poppin Sc17?

:icebong:


I thought about not getting the pH & ppm stuff because my grow is basically organic.

But reading around, I noticed that when problems arise, the first things people checked were pH & ppm/ec.

Problems usually have no trouble finding me, so it made sense to be ready.

I'm in this for the long haul, to break free from dependence on others for my herb.

I look at every single expenditure as an investment.

After my first ±½ lb (personal use) it's all gravy, baby. Expenses covered.

No dispensary prices. Flavors hand selected.
Side benefit: best hobby EVER.

So if you ever want to use them, just swing by.

Thanks for checking out my first grow, problems and all.



Peace

Sour "Cush" defying adversity. ( So far )
Lol

Jah Strength
mg

All are invited to check out my current first grow. [emoji271] Mephisto; DP.

https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/59051/

 

[massgrass]

'Sup, Waira.

Nice to have you back so soon.
Appreciate it.


I want to address your note in a little more detail in a bit, but I wanted to show you this stuff first.

I have samples of these( below) on hand for just such an occasion. Are they appropriate? They go together, and it's only the two parts. No micro.

I'm going down to water now, (might go for it with nutes).
5 minutes of due diligence (Google, obviously, lol) on adding organic nutes to tea,(use it or lose it, I think...its @ 48 hours) .I will then pH to the low 6's with a very diluted pH down, and spill a little malt liquor on the ground to honor my fallen micro-homies. [emoji481]

Epsoms first thing tomorrow. I've been hitting the undersides well with a ½ G pump sprayer and will continue with the new formula.

But, in "brief" .....(?)

PRODUCT SUMMARY

Similar to the Roots Organics line, the base of this line is the Grow, the Bloom, and the Infinity. One distinction is that you don't use the Grow all through the life cycle with Soul, you just have a more traditional transition over to the bloom. The Infinity provides many of the same benefits of Trinity (sugars boost, kelp boost, protein boost) with some added benefits. Infinity has three amino chelates for extra beneficial uptake help, plus botanical extracts such as bamboo extract as a natural source of silica, green tea extract as a vigor and immune boost, and grape seed as a taste enhancer.


Aurora Innovations
Soul INFINITY
NPK / 0.5 - 2 - 1

DERIVED FROM
Soy Protein Hydrolysate, Kelp Extract (Ascophyllum nodosum), Yucca Extract, Molasses, Calcium Amino Acid Complex and Iron Amino Acid Complex. Contains Non Plant Food Ingredients Humic Acid and Silica (derived from Bamboo Extract)

Soul Infinity is a complex blend of powerful natural plant nutrients we formulated to increase vigor and prevent nutrient deficiencies common in fast-growing and heavy-feeding plants. With its deliberate blend of distinct ingredients, Soul Infinity can be used with any base fertilizer line as a powerful supplement to increase growth and yields.




Soul BLOOM
NPK / 1 - 4 - 3

DERIVED FROM
Bat Guano Extract, Alfalfa Extract, Kelp Extract (Ascophyllum nodosum), Yucca Extract, Molasses, Potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate, Calcium Nitrate, Iron EDTA, and Magnesium Nitrate. Contains Non Plant Food Ingredient Humic Acid.

Soul Bloom is a powerful blend of soluble and natural fertility components, enhanced with potent botanical extracts. Designed specifically for enhanced quality and increased yields in versatile, demanding applications for the bloom stage. Soul Bloom and Grow are user-friendly and pH stable.

your quite welcome mate! And what a spread of Goods- You are as set as they get! [emoji106] ...and thank you for providing all the helpful details...
..pretty much all good news, nothing really out of whack at all, just a few over 6.5pH, but not into the 7's,.. it shows, as I don't see tell-tale Fe/Zn defc.'s showing on the newest growth (these are immobile within the plant once in established tissues, so can't be translocated to new growth),... your water is very nice and soft too, so I'm puzzled at the higher 6's pH? A lot of lime source can cause this, and strongly resist adjustment down,... How much Ca-Mg has been going in? -noted, on the Elemental,... have you been pH adjusting the water/nute solution? With no acidic nutes/fert's going in, this will also allow the pH to creep up over time,.. Oh, with that soft water, I see now why your pH is oddly high after Ca-Mg goes in! Any water that has low ppm hardness will be more prone to big pH swings from even small inputs,... adjust your inputs for those higher pH pots down to low 6's, and see if that helps over time,..
Can you get some PK booster nutes, or reg. bloom? Bottled organic stuff would be fine, but a little synthetic isn't going to lay waste to the herd! do you use inoculants? What's in your tea? Getting your P input up is the goal here, extra K won't hurt either,...
For foliar, and getting S in there just in case that's part of the problem, epsoms (MgSO4) is the ticket, readily absorbed,... great on the wetting agent! Be sure to get bottom of leaves especially, as more stomata are there,.. do this early lights-on if you can, but keep them out of direct intense light until dry,... re-wet with plain water to help get a second helping in there, and clean the leaves some,...

eP chum, you know,.. right tool for the right job!

Jah Strength
mg

All are invited to check out my current first grow. [emoji271] Mephisto; DP.

https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/59051/

 

[Scar17]

Can't live with 'em
Can't live without 'em
Lol
$$$

What's Poppin Sc17?

:icebong:


I thought about not getting the pH & ppm stuff because my grow is basically organic.

But reading around, I noticed that when problems arise, the first things people checked were pH & ppm/ec.

Problems usually have no trouble finding me, so it made sense to be ready.

I'm in this for the long haul, to break free from dependence on others for my herb.

I look at every single expenditure as an investment.

After my first ±½ lb (personal use) it's all gravy, baby. Expenses covered.

No dispensary prices. Flavors hand selected.
Side benefit: best hobby EVER.

So if you ever want to use them, just swing by.

Thanks for checking out my first grow, problems and all.



Peace

Sour "Cush" defying adversity. ( So far )
Lol

Jah Strength
mg

All are invited to check out my current first grow. [emoji271] Mephisto; DP.

https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/59051/

Question, where did you get the expression sick bay, bringing back some memories for me even though i never went. Knew a few that did

 

[Waira]

:smoking:.... you know, very likely you won't have to pH down on the nute soln.'s with those products, they will be plenty acidic,... I'd still add the CaMg+, for the little extra N and especially, the carbonate in it (this is the part that's involved directly with pH buffering in solution),... Oh, and the tea, never pH adjust that, it goes in raw as is,.. which reminds me to ask, specifically, what are you making the tea from? Organic tea is mostly about the microbes, and you need some inoculant, EWC, or something that has them,... tea or not, feed ASAP!

... Scar, I think Sick Bay is a military/Naval term...