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I debated whether toplace this in the Dispensary forum, but it's not really a sick plant. So hoping someone here can shed some light on an irritating issue for me. I'm having some slow-to-bloom challenges with my latest grow, Fast Buds’ Rhino Ryder Autoflower. Looking for similar experiences, or better still, solutions?
On average, my past (15) grows have shown progressive bloom within 14 days after transplanting to LED lighting. The fastest was 12 days, longest was 19. Today, this one is 38 days from seedling transplant. There are a FEW preflowers, single two-pistil groups that you REALLY have to look closely to find. I’m talking hand held magnifying glass closely. Basically she is still in a healthy vegetative growth state and putting on good branching infrastructure across the canopy. None of the terminal leaders are beginning to cluster like they should when its transitioning to bloom. Now, if she ever turns on the colas she will be a true Amazon Woman. This is a 27” X 27” square tent & she’s practically filled it side-to-side:
On Day 26 I switched nutrients to transition formula, hoping to encourage bloom. On Day 29 I decreased lighting from 20/4 to 18/6 while I started searching AFN for answers. Our revered and highly respected @fettled6 replied he had seen this in one of his past grows. His solution was to run through 48 hours of total darkness, followed by five days of 12/12, then 18 / 6. This solved his problem. So on Day 33 I started two days of darkness, and on Day 35 I began 12 / 12. Today is Day 38, no change. Still healthy, still showing steady vegetative growth, but no more preflowers than when I started worrying about lack of bloom.
I know 12 / 12 lighting can induce an axe handle to bloom if it’s transplanted properly and the right nutes are applied. I also know that every hour of light contributes to better yield, so I don’t want to default to 12 /12 unless that’s my last resort.
In thinking this through I find myself wondering, is there such a thing as a "slow" auto? I've seen that term referenced but I don't have firsthand experience with auto's not blooming.
And if they do exist, is it possible to trigger a "slow" auto by shortening daylight time? By its very genetics that's a photoperiod trait. Does it apply / will it work for an autoflower strain that is time-, not light-dependent?
And if there is such a thing as a "slow" auto, what is the minimum lights-off time that will encourage bloom?
And if bloom is triggered, will it remain stable if the lighting interval is increased?
I’ve been along for the ride with other growers who accidentally received a photoperiod seed when they thought it was an auto ( @Autotron , he’s been there / done that). But this is Fast Buds, and all they provide is autoflowering strains. Sure, they have to utilize photoperiods for their breeding efforts, but all professional breeders find a desirable phenotype from seed, then work from photoperiod clones of that pheno to develop and stabilize autoflower crosses? Anything’s possible, but highly doubtful they accidentally mixed a photoperiod seed in the batch of three autoflowers that I received. Not faulting the Breeder, and I seriously doubt I will find this to be the case. But I have to consider the possibility.
Is it possible that this is a not-quite-stable phenotype with not-quite-enough autoflower genes? Here’s where my Science goes fuzzy - I’m not sure the autoflower gene is something you can dilute. I would expect it to be present, or not. The only parallel I can think of is parental phenotyping, where seeds exhibit more of one parent’s traits than the other. A perfect rime example of that - in the early 2000’s an outdoor grower gave me a single seeded bud from a G-13 / Big Bud hybrid harvest. I claimed the seeds myself from the bud.
This little pheno would make the world hungry:
And this pheno would cure world hunger:
But I digress. Can phenotype differences extend itself to autoflowers? I think not in a stable strain, but I’m not a breeder. I do have two more seeds of this variety, and time will tell if subsequent grows present the same. But that does nothing for me now.
Do we have any esteemed Breeder members who would care to take a crack at explaining this without getting into the xy headaches? I would find that a most interesting and valuable topic if you would.
Any grower experiences with solutions that worked for you? One and counting, but hedging my bets as F6’s solution does not seem to be working for me. Sucks to be me? Most days, no… we’ll see.[/COLOR][/URL][/COLOR][/URL]
On average, my past (15) grows have shown progressive bloom within 14 days after transplanting to LED lighting. The fastest was 12 days, longest was 19. Today, this one is 38 days from seedling transplant. There are a FEW preflowers, single two-pistil groups that you REALLY have to look closely to find. I’m talking hand held magnifying glass closely. Basically she is still in a healthy vegetative growth state and putting on good branching infrastructure across the canopy. None of the terminal leaders are beginning to cluster like they should when its transitioning to bloom. Now, if she ever turns on the colas she will be a true Amazon Woman. This is a 27” X 27” square tent & she’s practically filled it side-to-side:
On Day 26 I switched nutrients to transition formula, hoping to encourage bloom. On Day 29 I decreased lighting from 20/4 to 18/6 while I started searching AFN for answers. Our revered and highly respected @fettled6 replied he had seen this in one of his past grows. His solution was to run through 48 hours of total darkness, followed by five days of 12/12, then 18 / 6. This solved his problem. So on Day 33 I started two days of darkness, and on Day 35 I began 12 / 12. Today is Day 38, no change. Still healthy, still showing steady vegetative growth, but no more preflowers than when I started worrying about lack of bloom.
I know 12 / 12 lighting can induce an axe handle to bloom if it’s transplanted properly and the right nutes are applied. I also know that every hour of light contributes to better yield, so I don’t want to default to 12 /12 unless that’s my last resort.
In thinking this through I find myself wondering, is there such a thing as a "slow" auto? I've seen that term referenced but I don't have firsthand experience with auto's not blooming.
And if they do exist, is it possible to trigger a "slow" auto by shortening daylight time? By its very genetics that's a photoperiod trait. Does it apply / will it work for an autoflower strain that is time-, not light-dependent?
And if there is such a thing as a "slow" auto, what is the minimum lights-off time that will encourage bloom?
And if bloom is triggered, will it remain stable if the lighting interval is increased?
I’ve been along for the ride with other growers who accidentally received a photoperiod seed when they thought it was an auto ( @Autotron , he’s been there / done that). But this is Fast Buds, and all they provide is autoflowering strains. Sure, they have to utilize photoperiods for their breeding efforts, but all professional breeders find a desirable phenotype from seed, then work from photoperiod clones of that pheno to develop and stabilize autoflower crosses? Anything’s possible, but highly doubtful they accidentally mixed a photoperiod seed in the batch of three autoflowers that I received. Not faulting the Breeder, and I seriously doubt I will find this to be the case. But I have to consider the possibility.
Is it possible that this is a not-quite-stable phenotype with not-quite-enough autoflower genes? Here’s where my Science goes fuzzy - I’m not sure the autoflower gene is something you can dilute. I would expect it to be present, or not. The only parallel I can think of is parental phenotyping, where seeds exhibit more of one parent’s traits than the other. A perfect rime example of that - in the early 2000’s an outdoor grower gave me a single seeded bud from a G-13 / Big Bud hybrid harvest. I claimed the seeds myself from the bud.
This little pheno would make the world hungry:
And this pheno would cure world hunger:
But I digress. Can phenotype differences extend itself to autoflowers? I think not in a stable strain, but I’m not a breeder. I do have two more seeds of this variety, and time will tell if subsequent grows present the same. But that does nothing for me now.
Do we have any esteemed Breeder members who would care to take a crack at explaining this without getting into the xy headaches? I would find that a most interesting and valuable topic if you would.
Any grower experiences with solutions that worked for you? One and counting, but hedging my bets as F6’s solution does not seem to be working for me. Sucks to be me? Most days, no… we’ll see.[/COLOR][/URL][/COLOR][/URL]
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