Every Grow- At the end they do this?

Does it start at the top of plant or at the bottom?
Only the tops. 4-5 Bottom leafs will yellow and fall off but that is through the whole grow and just part of the normal process I believe. So I was assuming it was the immobile nutrients but to be honest I dont know which nutrients those are lol.
 
I have this too but am in soil. In my opinion, the burnt tips and dark green non affected leaves shows a toxicity. I have not fed more than 3g per gallon and still got this toxicity. Not all plants behave like that though. The toxicity locks out nutes and screws with PH, causing this to happen. Only thing that don't make sense is that you are in hydro. If your oxygen pot system uses a fabric pot and your medium is soil or similar, I am betting its a lockout from salt build-up. Check your outer fabric pot when its dry. Do you feel the coarse salt build-up at bottom? Is your runoff ppm really high? If so, you might need to feed plain phed water for a while. I see improvements in as early as 24 hours when i do that. Except mine is not ebb and flow so i water to runoff.

If you're not using fabric pots or soil like medium, forget everything i said lol

I use just hydroton pebbles in the fabric pots. I have not noticed any build ups or root issues before so I have wavered from that idea. It might worth giving a shot. That is just a lot of water to just flush and dump lol. It takes me an hour to fill up my reservoir.
 
:jointman: Hi CD', long time! (fortunately?) :rofl:

...so, you're using only MC, no Sweet Candy, PK booster (Bud Explosion), other PK boosters? I like MC, but it has some down sides...
IMO, it's too light on P and too heavy on N for bloom stage; many folks here start dialing back the MC and adding in a PK booster... BE is very K heavy, nearly 1:2 ratio of P:K (reformulated recently,...again! I need to check this out, but I think it's still close to this)... During bloom, there's some solid evidence that during early to mid/late bloom, higher P to lower K ratio is better, and for finish, the opposite... K, S, Mn are more critical at this point for rich terpene production....
The hitch is, cutting back on MC also cuts back on everything else: secondary and micronutes, along with the myriad supplemental goodies.. BE is pretty much just P and K, and I see some folks going to another more nutritionally complete PK booster and/or better ratio's; even a base bloom nute to use in conjunction...
Another thing, it's harder to assess MC's ppm richness because so many other things are in there (besides nute salts), including non-ionic stuff that doesn't register well on TDS/EC... 3g/gal is about half strength? -- based on 1 level tsp = 6g ... this is a pretty mild solution....
OK, symptoms look mainly K related, but P and Mn defc. are suspect too... the hitch is, both K defc. and K-toxicity present nearly the same! :doh: ...classic tip and margin teeth burning... If that 3g of MC is all there is, I'm leaning toward defc. not toxicity... the secondary late showing symptoms are more uncertain, but I'd say that's Mn defc. acting up...
this makes some sorta sense---> behold Mulders Wheel of Confusion! :crying:

View attachment 1152921

>>> again the bitch with MC is you can't up the needed nutes content w/o piling on the unnecessary extras, which often as not will be detrimental! This can be magnified more so because this is hydro, not soil (different availability behavior with pH, etc.)....
Can you get an EC/TDS reading of your res'? ...Be sure to calculate in the water's base 200ppm as well (that's a bit high in mineral content; consider cutting it with RO/Di to about 100-150ppm)... I would also consider a PK booster (BE would be good at this stage) and a micronutrient supplement (Earth Juice Microblast)....
So there is alot here lol. And defintly not the first time Ive seen this wheel on the forums and confusion is a good word for it lol. But to see if I understand what your saying. Is to cut back on the MC once you have some good flowering going on and supplment with something that is just high on P&K and low on N?

My TDS pen is a cheap one that came with a zero water filter pitcher thing lol and it prolly inst the most reliable to be honest. With MC it normally hits around 750 total. 200ppm base water- 550ppm MC. During stretch stages my plants drink about 1-2 gallons of water per day, so what I do is replenish the lost water and check ppm. It will normally drop about 20-30 points. So once it gets to below 600. I throw some more MC in to get back to around 750.

I have tried to avoid supplementing and the only one I was considering was that Mammoth P. I like to eliminate variables as much as possible however I have to do what I must to keep my ladies happy. I just moved to a small boy filter to actually dechlorinate the water so I prolly wont be upgrading to a RO any time soon. And I have looked and looked and just cant find one that fits my needs. They all waste a lot of water and have small flows. Short of me building a professional grow facility and/or it being absolute needed that is :).
 
Just a quick update on this. The one with the most yellowing and spotting I decided to view it up close to see if where they were and found this below. I was really hoping a had another week or 2. (poped on Decmeber 1st) but these look pretty cloudy to me and some amber's starting. So I think we are just going to give this one the chop for now. I got a few of the others that look very similar or close.

20200125_213015.jpg
20200125_212940.jpg


What say you all? Cut her down lol?
 
Just a quick update on this. The one with the most yellowing and spotting I decided to view it up close to see if where they were and found this below. I was really hoping a had another week or 2. (poped on Decmeber 1st) but these look pretty cloudy to me and some amber's starting. So I think we are just going to give this one the chop for now. I got a few of the others that look very similar or close.

View attachment 1153034View attachment 1153035

What say you all? Cut her down lol?
Unless you are getting mostly cloudy and amber on the calyxes, you might not be there yet. The trichs on the leaves are usually earlier, and it is the ones on the buds themselves that are the best indicators - you smoke the flowers, not so much the leaves.

Good luck with the grow. :goodluck:
 
Just a quick update on this. The one with the most yellowing and spotting I decided to view it up close to see if where they were and found this below. I was really hoping a had another week or 2. (poped on Decmeber 1st) but these look pretty cloudy to me and some amber's starting. So I think we are just going to give this one the chop for now. I got a few of the others that look very similar or close.

View attachment 1153034View attachment 1153035

What say you all? Cut her down lol?
Off with her head!. Or maybe flush a week?
 
Just a quick update on this. The one with the most yellowing and spotting I decided to view it up close to see if where they were and found this below. I was really hoping a had another week or 2. (poped on Decmeber 1st) but these look pretty cloudy to me and some amber's starting. So I think we are just going to give this one the chop for now. I got a few of the others that look very similar or close.

View attachment 1153034View attachment 1153035

What say you all? Cut her down lol?

when u think they're done -> wait another week ;) ppp
 
So there is alot here lol. And defintly not the first time Ive seen this wheel on the forums and confusion is a good word for it lol. But to see if I understand what your saying. Is to cut back on the MC once you have some good flowering going on and supplment with something that is just high on P&K and low on N?
...pretty much, yes! I suggested a "complete nute profile" base bloom to help cover what's being lost to reduced MC, but some PK boosters do have micro's and such in them. You can add in kelp (or Earth Juice Microblast, less residues), Si, humic-fulvic (Ful-Power, pure liquid fulvic, again no residues from the insoluable humic portions) on a weekly/biweekly basis to fill in the other gaps,...


My TDS pen is a cheap one that came with a zero water filter pitcher thing lol and it prolly inst the most reliable to be honest. With MC it normally hits around 750 total. 200ppm base water- 550ppm MC. During stretch stages my plants drink about 1-2 gallons of water per day, so what I do is replenish the lost water and check ppm. It will normally drop about 20-30 points. So once it gets to below 600. I throw some more MC in to get back to around 750.
....yeah, at 550ppm of actual nutes, that's on the light side,... maybe tick it up another 150 ppm and see if this helps halt the symptoms some...(Have you looked in the GLN section for what other hydro' growers are running?) -- I say "some" because the leaves will still undergo the normal slow fade for this stage. Do you do full changes now and again? I ask because what gets taken in from solution isn't really in equal proportions, plus what the roots themselves are exuding, and an unbalanced level of nutes can be left behind; 1-2 gal of new juice may not restore this well enough over time...
TDS is probably OK for now. Unlike pH meters which are easily knocked off calibration, TDS/EC are more robust for holding theirs... But point made, the included cheapie you have may be suspect- :biggrin:.. they aren't $, a decent unit can be had for about $15...

I have tried to avoid supplementing and the only one I was considering was that Mammoth P. I like to eliminate variables as much as possible however I have to do what I must to keep my ladies happy. I just moved to a small boy filter to actually dechlorinate the water so I prolly wont be upgrading to a RO any time soon. And I have looked and looked and just cant find one that fits my needs. They all waste a lot of water and have small flows. Short of me building a professional grow facility and/or it being absolute needed that is
MP is a P and micronutrient availability enhancer, I'm not even sure how effective it is in hydro? In soil, the whole dynamic of nute cycling is totally different,...
I know where you're coming from CD, about supp'ing, it can be a pain! But this is the rub with all-in-one nutes, which MC is about the best at,... Many of the original growers running it found better bud formation with using a PK booster of some kind, and aside from my broad base-covering suggestions, plenty do a simple swap-out like we mentioned above.... But it's wise to have some extra nutritional tools on your belt when defc.'s show up... I ran MC for my OD photo's 2 seasons now, and I still ended up using several other things, particularly during bloom. My take, MC is best at veg', for bloom last year I used MC sparingly and shifted to a different base bloom nute (Terp Tea Bloom; for soil only I think?).... Micronutes defc.'s are a pain the treat, and EJM is the only one I've found that covers all the bases, plus has Sulfate as the main compounding anion for the metal-type micro's....
 
Oh, forgot to add on the trich pics... are those sugar leaves? Not the best reference, as I find they turn sooner than the calyxe trich's themselves,... assess trich's on several buds, calyxes only to gauge ripeness.... :thumbsup:
 
Oh, forgot to add on the trich pics... are those sugar leaves? Not the best reference, as I find they turn sooner than the calyxe trich's themselves,... assess trich's on several buds, calyxes only to gauge ripeness.... :thumbsup:
I believe your the 2nd to mention that and its great info. Ive always just looked at whatever I can reach to with my lens...so I will start to focus more on the calyxes.


....yeah, at 550ppm of actual nutes, that's on the light side,... maybe tick it up another 150 ppm and see if this helps halt the symptoms some...(Have you looked in the GLN section for what other hydro' growers are running?) -- I say "some" because the leaves will still undergo the normal slow fade for this stage. Do you do full changes now and again? I ask because what gets taken in from solution isn't really in equal proportions, plus what the roots themselves are exuding, and an unbalanced level of nutes can be left behind; 1-2 gal of new juice may not restore this well enough over time...
TDS is probably OK for now. Unlike pH meters which are easily knocked off calibration, TDS/EC are more robust for holding theirs... But point made, the included cheapie you have may be suspect- :biggrin:.. they aren't $, a decent unit can be had for about $15...

I do a full clean every few weeks. Completely drain, scrub with peroxide, rinse, and refill my reservoir. I never looked into it but I always just assumed that after so long particles would make the ppm reading not accurate of the content of nutes. As far as the other forum. Ive ready through it and am subscribed but there is not as many of us running hydro with it. More talk about prepping it in liquid form then supplementing.

On a side note. My first grow was with Canna and I am not against trying any nutes if they are recommended. I went with MC for the simplicity and cost. But if someone gives me a A+ super bud formula. I will run that shit lol.
 
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