Harvest & Curing Dinamed Auto CBD Kush ripe yet?

[Olderfart]

Just an FYI, decarb temps are higher and longer for CBD.

There seems to be much argument about details. Any useful links in your arsenal?

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

hmm have heard a similar thing.But then ive heard lots of things,sometimes a fact comes into my head (but then i have to think is it a fact,or did i just dream it
apparently vapers should adjust the temps a different way from what they think

its entirely possible the same or similar applies for decarbing to,but most of us just have this to go on

its a shame the graph stops where it does as id like to know how many days it would take for the 80 and 94 f's to get anywhere near the 15mg mark.
And also what the grey lines represent ?
keep er lit

 

[Olderfart]

hmm have heard a similar thing.But then ive heard lots of things,sometimes a fact comes into my head (but then i have to think is it a fact,or did i just dream it
apparently vapers should adjust the temps a different way from what they think View attachment 1290163
its entirely possible the same or similar applies for decarbing to,but most of us just have this to go on


View attachment 1290164
its a shame the graph stops where it does as id like to know how many days it would take for the 80 and 94 f's to get anywhere near the 15mg mark.
And also what the grey lines represent ?
keep er lit

The bottom graph shows up all over the place on the internet. The Ardent website notes a few interesting details about the data, primarily that the test was of extracted THC in solvent, not of whole or ground up bud. FWIW, I think that Ardent's criticism of the data is reasonable, and unless they are lying about their own data, the process in bud may be different.

As far as I have been able to determine, the Ardent Nova and its bigger sister the FX both use a maximum of 220F for about an hour as the standard treatment in these devices' sequence for THC. This period is preceded by a ramp up of twenty minutes or so, and a cool down later. In the Nova, they found that this sequence run through twice gives near complete decarbing of CBD, so even temps as low as 220F will apparently do CBD in about two hours or so.

Unfortunately, neither the Ardent website nor any other source I have found identify how much higher the temperature is, or how much longer the period of heating is, in the sequence used by the FX for CBD. Ardent says that the sequence is "slightly hotter and slightly longer" or words to that effect, but the details are not stated. In fact Ardent refers to their temperature sequence as "proprietary", so who knows whether the period of heating is simple or some other pattern that includes a peak of 220F rather than an hour period of constant 220F. If I could get my mitts on one of these things for an afternoon, I would soon find out. However, at the price, it ain't gonna hoppen unless I luck into someone that will loan me their unit for a day.

I am going to put together an inkbird controlled decarb oven made from a slow cooker I got at the junk store. Total cost ~$60 for the Inkbird PID, plus $5 or so for the slow cooker. Higher capacity than the fx, and separate strains can be done simultaneously. $65 rather than ~$500. My cheap DIY bias strikes again.

Now if I can just find the CBD decarb sequence... I continue to dig.

 

[Filthy_Casual]

The bottom graph shows up all over the place on the internet. The Ardent website notes a few interesting details about the data, primarily that the test was of extracted THC in solvent, not of whole or ground up bud. FWIW, I think that Ardent's criticism of the data is reasonable, and unless they are lying about their own data, the process in bud may be different.

As far as I have been able to determine, the Ardent Nova and its bigger sister the FX both use a maximum of 220F for about an hour as the standard treatment in these devices' sequence for THC. This period is preceded by a ramp up of twenty minutes or so, and a cool down later. In the Nova, they found that this sequence run through twice gives near complete decarbing of CBD, so even temps as low as 220F will apparently do CBD in about two hours or so.

Unfortunately, neither the Ardent website nor any other source I have found identify how much higher the temperature is, or how much longer the period of heating is, in the sequence used by the FX for CBD. Ardent says that the sequence is "slightly hotter and slightly longer" or words to that effect, but the details are not stated. In fact Ardent refers to their temperature sequence as "proprietary", so who knows whether the period of heating is simple or some other pattern that includes a peak of 220F rather than an hour period of constant 220F. If I could get my mitts on one of these things for an afternoon, I would soon find out. However, at the price, it ain't gonna hoppen unless I luck into someone that will loan me their unit for a day.

I am going to put together an inkbird controlled decarb oven made from a slow cooker I got at the junk store. Total cost ~$60 for the Inkbird PID, plus $5 or so for the slow cooker. Higher capacity than the fx, and separate strains can be done simultaneously. $65 rather than ~$500. My cheap DIY bias strikes again.

Now if I can just find the CBD decarb sequence... I continue to dig.

I use a nova, will be harvesting canna cheese in two months (mephistos cbd:thc 1:1). I will be making some batches of cookies with the trim and larf. I usually decarb once after grinding the bud, and again in ghee butter.

would that count as twice for these purposes, or twice as flower and a third time as a ghee mix?

if You are in the north east by chance, and promise not to be a dick And steal it, I’d consider lending it to you for a few days to test out.

 

[Olderfart]

I use a nova, will be harvesting canna cheese in two months (mephistos cbd:thc 1:1). I will be making some batches of cookies with the trim and larf. I usually decarb once after grinding the bud, and again in ghee butter.

would that count as twice for these purposes, or twice as flower and a third time as a ghee mix?

if You are in the north east by chance, and promise not to be a dick And steal it, I’d consider lending it to you for a few days to test out.

Hey, thanks for the offer, I'd be glad to test and report results, but sadly, I am on the other side of the continent.

I did find an interesting research paper on the topic of decarbing CBD, and it seems to have some good data on both THC and CBD and the comparative process best for decarbing both. I don't have time right now to report on it, but I will later.

As to your question about how to use the Nova, if it was me, I would just run the nova twice if you are dealing with an all CBD strain, and not worry about what decarb happens during extraction. If you have a mix of THC and CBD, Ardent says that the normal cycle will decarb both. It seems that the THC somehow helps the CBD get decarbed, or at least that is the implication of the Ardent discussion.

Anyway, more later.

 

[St. Tom]

Hey, thanks for the offer, I'd be glad to test and report results, but sadly, I am on the other side of the continent.

I did find an interesting research paper on the topic of decarbing CBD, and it seems to have some good data on both THC and CBD and the comparative process best for decarbing both. I don't have time right now to report on it, but I will later.

As to your question about how to use the Nova, if it was me, I would just run the nova twice if you are dealing with an all CBD strain, and not worry about what decarb happens during extraction. If you have a mix of THC and CBD, Ardent says that the normal cycle will decarb both. It seems that the THC somehow helps the CBD get decarbed, or at least that is the implication of the Ardent discussion.

Anyway, more later.

hi bro I've grown this strain for my wife about 4 times and regarding harvesting, i just went off when she looked like shed finished swelling I also took my last one down earlier than my others and my wife never said anything if it was any different potency wise and i made rso with all mine

 

[Olderfart]

Ok, so I have done quite a bit more digging, and the best information I have found is in a scientific publication that checked and compared decarb results for both THC and CBD. The paper is here for anyone wanting to read the whole thing:

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/can.2016.0020

For those who are more interested in my interpretation and summary, here is the data that I think applies to us growers looking to decarb CBD weed:

Concentration (mM) of (A) CBDA and (B) CBD as a function of time and temperature

My take on this data is as follows.

The best temperature, IMO is 110C/230F. At this temperature, decarbing of CBD is done in ~50 minutes, at which point the total CBD in the sample was still continuing to increase slightly. I take this to mean that a longer time at 110C is unlikely to do any harm, and may ensure that all bud in the decarb oven gets completely treated. The 110C temperature is consistent with a couple other recommendations I found on the internet, perhaps based on the same data, but that was not clarified. Higher temperatures than 110C could also be used, but I prefer to use the lowest effective temperature to protect cannabinoids and terpenes. In the highest two temperatures used in the study, CBD levels start to drop slightly after peak levels are reached, so degradation of CBD seems to be a risk at higher decarb temperatures. Lower temperatures than 110C appear to require duration longer than those tested in the study. OTOH, Ardent Nova seems to get full decarb of CBD done in something like a 2-3 hours at ~104C, so we know it can be done.

On balance, for CBD I will likely set my oven up to shoot for 90 minutes at 110C. I will pre-heat the decarb oven and jars before putting in the bud, which should make sure that all bud gets to temperature in time to get an hour of full temperature treatment. For THC, I will use 90 minutes at 104C, more or less what the Nova and FX seem to use.

I will post another thread on this stuff once I get the temperature controller and set the oven up.

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

is it my imagination or is the KEY for 110c the same as 145c ? or is this a B/W copy of a colour pic ? how to tell if an equalateral triangle is pointing left or right ?
some sous vide machines only go upto 100c that might be 212 f....but thats not really the case,or it is if you put it in a pan of water,they can be put in oil so can go higher.I dont know where that came from or why ya might want to use a sous vide machine
yep it was a russian scientist using bho,mind boggles why theres been no follow up tests,and more test results available.Inkbirds are great lil tools.
good luck n keep er lit

 

[Olderfart]

is it my imagination or is the KEY for 110c the same as 145c ? or is this a B/W copy of a colour pic ? how to tell if an equalateral triangle is pointing left or right ?
some sous vide machines only go upto 100c that might be 212 f....but thats not really the case,or it is if you put it in a pan of water,they can be put in oil so can go higher.I dont know where that came from or why ya might want to use a sous vide machine
yep it was a russian scientist using bho,mind boggles why theres been no follow up tests,and more test results available.Inkbirds are great lil tools.
good luck n keep er lit

Good catch on the symbol Archie! I hadn't noticed. The original was black and white as far as I know. I think if you go to the original paper, it will still be in B&W. There is no confusion on which line is which though, the 145C line is the top one at the start of the graphs, the 110 line is in the middle.

I hear that some use a sous vide, but I am not interested in fiddling with a lot of hot oil - a whole lot of unnecessary mess, and some extra risk. Spilling some 110C oil on skin would be a bad day. Depending on the number of watts of the unit and the size and insulation of the pot involved, a sous vide heater may well be able to operate at higher than 212F inn oil. The reason it can't go higher in water is that the water just boils harder at the same temperature.

I will use a crock pot for my decarb oven, likely without its ceramic pot liner. I am still working on design details, but the inkbird PID controller is on its way. Given the modest heating power of the crock pot element, I think it should work to keep temps within a very narrow band exactly where I want them.

Inkbirds are a miracle at their price. I have used a couple of them for refrigeration and heating purposes, and they work incredibly well. The capability and reliability of these things is stunning given the pricing. The first one I tried was an attempt at tuning up the performance of the refrigerator in a boat. The dead stupid mechanical thermostat on the fridge was not working well any more, and I wanted to set the control up differently. The ~$20 inkbird controller was a fraction of the price of the mechanical alternative, and the digital control options proved to be spectacularly easier and more effective. The fridge and its inkbird are still going strong three years later. I also used one to control the heat pad I use for germination, and now to control heating in the growdrobe. The crock pot decarb oven will be job 4 for my inkbirds.

Thanks for checking in Archie!