Cannabinoid/Terpene Synthesis Question

[MrLahey]

Sesquiterpenes are created using both
GPP & FPP (both blues).
Cannabinoids & monoterpenes however are
synthesized with GPP only.
It would stand to reason that sesquiterpenes,
monoterpenes, and cannabinoid synthases
are not only in competition for resources
but also for space within the trichome head.
A synthase is an enzyme that synthesizes.

So do I have something wrong here?
If the notion is correct, shouldn't the goal be to produce genetics low in terpenes?
I know this probably isn't the correct place to ask the question but didn't quite know where else to post it.

 

[Fitzy]

Sesquiterpenes are created using both
GPP & FPP (both blues).
Cannabinoids & monoterpenes however are
synthesized with GPP only.
It would stand to reason that sesquiterpenes,
monoterpenes, and cannabinoid synthases
are not only in competition for resources
but also for space within the trichome head.
A synthase is an enzyme that synthesizes.

So do I have something wrong here?
If the notion is correct, shouldn't the goal be to produce genetics low in terpenes?
I know this probably isn't the correct place to ask the question but didn't quite know where else to post it.

From wat I've understood the thc cbd cba and terps are measured by how many glands there are which is why uva/cub bulbs are used to increase how many glands there are within that space, once a plants reaches its max thc content it produces more terps.

 

[MrLahey]

From wat I've understood the thc cbd cba and terps are measured by how many glands there are which is why uva/cub bulbs are used to increase how many glands there are within that space, once a plants reaches its max thc content it produces more terps.

What would lead you to believe that there is an order to the synthesis? The stronger aroma of more developed plants? It's a given that as a trichome is more developed so to will its contents.

The image I posted is a representation of inside the trichome head. There is solid reasoning to believe that terpene synthases are BAD if your goal is cannabinoid yield.
I know there are lots of people that have a strong faith in the role terpenes play in the entourage effect. but it's ass-backward and detrimental to what the overarching goals of genetics SHOULD be.

Either I am misunderstanding (i don't think I am) or the entire cannabis industry is so disillusioned by the potential benefits of terpenes and their aromas that they would fail to see the negative correlation between mono sesq and cannabinoid synthases when shown suggesting evidence.

I mean increasing cannabinoid and terpene production should have relatively the same methods (increase the supply of FPP/GPP available for synthesis).
It becomes a genetic bottleneck issue when getting 100% potential out of a cultivar. If I want to create a cultivar that has 30% THC it simply can't have a lot CBD in it because of the limited space within the trichome. The same should hold true for the terpene content.

There are supposedly 100+ cannabinoids 150+ terpenes, in theory the contents of a trichome and the ratios of these hundreds of different compounds is relatively within our control genetically. So isn't it a shame that we're playing around with the 150 terpene synthases seemingly because we can detect it through smell whereas breeding with minor cannabinoids synthases as a goal can only currently be done with insane laboratory test equipment.
It really almost enrages me because our noses are leading us away from insane future cannabis diverse in rare cannabinoids.

 

[Fitzy]

What would lead you to believe that there is an order to the synthesis? The stronger aroma of more developed plants? It's a given that as a trichome is more developed so to will its contents.

The image I posted is a representation of inside the trichome head. There is solid reasoning to believe that terpene synthases are BAD if your goal is cannabinoid yield.
I know there are lots of people that have a strong faith in the role terpenes play in the entourage effect. but it's ass-backward and detrimental to what the overarching goals of genetics SHOULD be.

Either I am misunderstanding (i don't think I am) or the entire cannabis industry is so disillusioned by the potential benefits of terpenes and their aromas that they would fail to see the negative correlation between mono sesq and cannabinoid synthases when shown suggesting evidence.

I mean increasing cannabinoid and terpene production should have relatively the same methods (increase the supply of FPP/GPP available for synthesis).
It becomes a genetic bottleneck issue when getting 100% potential out of a cultivar. If I want to create a cultivar that has 30% THC it simply can't have a lot CBD in it because of the limited space within the trichome. The same should hold true for the terpene content.

There are supposedly 100+ cannabinoids 150+ terpenes, in theory the contents of a trichome and the ratios of these hundreds of different compounds is relatively within our control genetically. So isn't it a shame that we're playing around with the 150 terpene synthases seemingly because we can detect it through smell whereas breeding with minor cannabinoids synthases as a goal can only currently be done with insane laboratory test equipment.
It really almost enrages me because our noses are leading us away from insane future cannabis diverse in rare cannabinoids.

Eat I was stating is let say for arguments sake the plant we are talking about is 20% we can increase tric production but that bud is still only 20% but now has more flavors or other cannabinoids present. I do see wat ur saying though and it makes sense but a high thc content imho means very little as I've had lots of lower thc buds that gave a better over all effect and there are lots of people for example who love think fast but it's medium thc content would make you think it's not very good but it's better than others with higher thc. I think the best thing is to find some people like us to get into real genetic research of the plants that would report wat we actually found not biased crap. Anyways one other thing who is to say that the trichs arnt bigger or something similar I would love to find out. Awsome topic bud really interesting.

 

[MrLahey]

Eat I was stating is let say for arguments sake the plant we are talking about is 20% we can increase tric production but that bud is still only 20% but now has more flavors or other cannabinoids present. I do see wat ur saying though and it makes sense but a high thc content imho means very little as I've had lots of lower thc buds that gave a better over all effect and there are lots of people for example who love think fast but it's medium thc content would make you think it's not very good but it's better than others with higher thc. I think the best thing is to find some people like us to get into real genetic research of the plants that would report wat we actually found not biased crap. Anyways one other thing who is to say that the trichs arnt bigger or something similar I would love to find out. Awsome topic bud really interesting.

You bring up a very valid point and another giant cause of my frustrations;
The entourage effect is a proposed mechanism by which cannabis compounds other than tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) act synergistically with it to modulate the overall psychoactive effects of the plant.
Some of the different terpenes have known pharmacological effects and have been studied.

So we know there are 100+ different Cannabinoids with known and unknown psychoactive effects. This alone gives credibility to the entourage effect. However, its more commonly associated with different terpenes present rather than different cannabinoids.

This makes me so angry my head could explode.

You probably still haven't noticed the problem, but here goes.
Terpenes don't fucking have psychoactive effects they barely possess pharmacological effects.
You might as well go to an essential oil store and fucking poor that on your bud, it'll give you the same placebo/ taste correlated memory responses the terpenes are.

 

[MrLahey]

Truth is I hate terpenes but I'm more than happy to change my view if anyone can provide a single piece of evidence that is geared to do so. I challenge you to, there isn't any.

 

[Mizzo81]

Don’t get angry u seem intelligent enough to breed your own strain. Start working one with little to no terps and high thc. Turn your anger into creative breeding

 

[BII]

....Terpenes don't fucking have psychoactive effects they barely possess pharmacological effects....

Terpenes are not psychoactive. But they do stimulate nerves, are irritants, such as why cigarettes are menthol (a monoterpene) flavored. And for some or many, maybe most, mixing nerve stimulation with psychoactive effects is desired, pleasurable.

Pure THC has a bad rep as having a 'blah,' no character, no fun, etc. high. [Maybe, some medical users who know for real can comment]. So some other things make each plant, bud, even each hit perceptually different.

Regarding:
"You might as well go to an essential oil store and fucking poor that on your bud, it'll give you the same placebo/ taste correlated memory responses the terpenes are."
And a lot of people want that. This is exactly what all the remixed strain-named THC oils are all about, such as where they take distillate (rather pure THC) and add back each terpene try to reproduce the basic terpene profile of a particular strain.

 

[MrLahey]

Terpenes are not psychoactive. But they do stimulate nerves, are irritants, such as why cigarettes are menthol (a monoterpene) flavored. And for some or many, maybe most, mixing nerve stimulation with psychoactive effects is desired, pleasurable.

Pure THC has a bad rep as having a 'blah,' no character, no fun, etc. high. [Maybe, some medical users who know for real can comment]. So some other things make each plant, bud, even each hit perceptually different.

Regarding:
"You might as well go to an essential oil store and fucking poor that on your bud, it'll give you the same placebo/ taste correlated memory responses the terpenes are."
And a lot of people want that. This is exactly what all the remixed strain-named THC oils are all about, such as where they take distillate (rather pure THC) and add back each terpene try to reproduce the basic terpene profile of a particular strain.

I understand that much, my issue is this.
There is either a real difference in the psychoactive effects of different strains or it is a perceptual placebo. If the former is true than marketing different effects around different terpene profiles Is a lie. If the latter is true than marketing different effects around different terpenes profiles is also a lie. Either way its a lie.

 

[Mizzo81]

I understand that much, my issue is this.
There is either a real difference in the psychoactive effects of different strains or it is a perceptual placebo. If the former is true than marketing different effects around different terpene profiles Is a lie. If the latter is true than marketing different effects around different terpenes profiles is also a lie. Either way its a lie.

I don’t think u smoke enough. Way too mad over something like this.