Grow Mediums Autopot review after semi final grow result, no hydroton, no air dome.

[briefbriefs]

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with the combo of autopots, fabric pots, and the coco/perlite medium I used. Cost wise, this system is as good as anything else, and IMHO better than most. If you put a serious filter on the reservoir, you will have no problem with plugging. I used one of the pleated filter elements used for household water systems, and wedged it with plastic foam into the bottom of the reservoir over the spigot intake. It worked perfectly throughout the grow in spite of lots of debris in the water as I was using lake water to mix nutes.

would you happen to have a few pictures of your filter set up? And of your reservoir?

 

[Olderfart]

would you happen to have a few pictures of your filter set up? And of your reservoir?

I don't have them at the moment, but I am doing some camera work down there, so I will get some to you shortly.

 

[briefbriefs]

I don't have them at the moment, but I am doing some camera work down there, so I will get some to you shortly.

hell yeah, thank you

 

[briefbriefs]

From the reading I have done, it seems to me that the air domes usually don't do any harm unless air pumping is excessive, but if they improve things, it is not by much. Most growers I have noticed who report having compared with and without air domes see little difference in results. Bottom line for me is that the system works very well without an air pump dependent on electricity, so I am not interested in the extra complexity.

To each hers, or his own, but I will keep my autopot system simple. Had I seen any indication of root problems within the flooded part of my pots, I would have done something about the problem, but my grow confirms to me that there is no need.

Hi OF! How do you set up your pots? Do you use perlite/hydroton at the bottom? And what's your medium? Im debating whether or not to use the airdomes for my run -- as i've ordered two 2.2gals instead of 3.9gals (i have a small 2 x 2.5ft tent) and id rather have two smaller plants than one large one.

 

[Olderfart]

Hey @briefbriefs , I recommend that you keep the medium simple- just medium all the way down. With fabric pots at least, you do not need an air dome -my grow proved that, and air pump/dome is just one more thing to screw up. I doubt air domes will do much for your solid pots either, but I haven't used them. Hydroton or any other really coarse medium in the bottom of the pot is not useful, and may be harmful. The autopot setup relies on irrigation from the bottom, and your nute solution will not soak upward efficiently across a major transition in particle size. I used coco with perlite, about 60% coco, and 40% perlite all the way down, and the plants loved it. If you go with coco, make sure you understand about buffering and make sure that your mix is buffered.

If you are not inclined to use coco, I recommend that you try ProMixHP Myco or Sunshine Mix#4 if either is available where you live. I would add some perlite to either, even though they already have some. Any peat based or coco based mix will also work fine as long as it contains lots of perlite and you stay away from those with significant nutes included. I recommend staying with a "soil-less" mix to avoid nute complications. IMHO, unless you are trying to go organic (and you should not with small pots) you are better off just using MegaCrop if you want maximum simplicity, and you can add a few other goodies like Sweet Candy and Bud Explosion if you want to get fancier. You don't need anything else. You could also add some Yucca powder if you want to - it avoids your medium becoming hydrophobic if you let it dry out too much. OTOH, with autopots that will not happen unless you screw up while you are top feeding them.

In my opinion an EC pen (can be a cheap one) and a pH meter (don't bother with cheap, an Apera will do nicely, and is cheaper than most or all comparable alternatives) are required unless you were going full organic with very well developed soil - you should just put the airdome and Hydroton money into these two measuring tools. They can keep you out of trouble, and if you get into trouble, you will need both to get out. Having them in place before you need them is a good plan.

Just a head's up, but unless you are sticking with known genetics for small plants, fitting two autopot plants in a tent your size will be hard. Even my two 24C's would have been a tough fit in that space, and they did not have an easy life given my screwups, and the strain is known to be consistently modest in size. I hate to say it, but I think you may be better off with one plant in your space. Unless the strain is known to be small, you will still have to work to keep it happy in that space. Autopots grow them big.

I took pics of my filter setup this morning, and will get them posted sometime later today.

If there is anything else I can help with, just tag me and I will do what I can.

 

[briefbriefs]

Hey @briefbriefs , I recommend that you keep the medium simple- just medium all the way down. With fabric pots at least, you do not need an air dome -my grow proved that, and air pump/dome is just one more thing to screw up. I doubt air domes will do much for your solid pots either, but I haven't used them. Hydroton or any other really coarse medium in the bottom of the pot is not useful, and may be harmful. The autopot setup relies on irrigation from the bottom, and your nute solution will not soak upward efficiently across a major transition in particle size. I used coco with perlite, about 60% coco, and 40% perlite all the way down, and the plants loved it. If you go with coco, make sure you understand about buffering and make sure that your mix is buffered.

If you are not inclined to use coco, I recommend that you try ProMixHP Myco or Sunshine Mix#4 if either is available where you live. I would add some perlite to either, even though they already have some. Any peat based or coco based mix will also work fine as long as it contains lots of perlite and you stay away from those with significant nutes included. I recommend staying with a "soil-less" mix to avoid nute complications. IMHO, unless you are trying to go organic (and you should not with small pots) you are better off just using MegaCrop if you want maximum simplicity, and you can add a few other goodies like Sweet Candy and Bud Explosion if you want to get fancier. You don't need anything else. You could also add some Yucca powder if you want to - it avoids your medium becoming hydrophobic if you let it dry out too much. OTOH, with autopots that will not happen unless you screw up while you are top feeding them.

In my opinion an EC pen (can be a cheap one) and a pH meter (don't bother with cheap, an Apera will do nicely, and is cheaper than most or all comparable alternatives) are required unless you were going full organic with very well developed soil - you should just put the airdome and Hydroton money into these two measuring tools. They can keep you out of trouble, and if you get into trouble, you will need both to get out. Having them in place before you need them is a good plan.

Just a head's up, but unless you are sticking with known genetics for small plants, fitting two autopot plants in a tent your size will be hard. Even my two 24C's would have been a tough fit in that space, and they did not have an easy life given my screwups, and the strain is known to be consistently modest in size. I hate to say it, but I think you may be better off with one plant in your space. Unless the strain is known to be small, you will still have to work to keep it happy in that space. Autopots grow them big.

I took pics of my filter setup this morning, and will get them posted sometime later today.

If there is anything else I can help with, just tag me and I will do what I can.

1) Thank you so much for taking the time to write out such a detailed reply, i really appreciate it!

2) I'm likely going to do exactly what you suggest (no dome, 60 coco/40 perlite all the way down) but im wondering why all i see is people prepping their autopot grows with hydroton? Is it just a case of "someone online told me to do it this way, and i havent questioned it"? I've only ever grown in fabric pots, so im sliiiightly concerned about the lack of air getting to the roots, but if the solid pots were an issue i would have read complaints by now right?

3) question for you: I have a bag of Mother Earth Coco and Biobizz Coco -- i've only used the biobizz coco in my fabric pot, but when i tested the EC of the runoff right out of the bag, it came out to 1700 (1.7) EC! Thats nuts right? They say their coco is pre-buffered and washed though, so maybe thats the EC of their buffer and i screwed up by washing it? I was really scared to put my Jiffy Pots in coco that hot, so i washed it until the EC was as low as i could get it. Then I buffered with Cal Mag, though i am afraid that i didnt do it correctly.
Now i have two options:
ONE: I can go right back to the bag of Biobizz and use it (unwashed, as is) straight out of the bag into the 2.2Gal pots once i transplant my plants from their solo cups.
TWO: I can take the coco/perlite i have in the fabric pots right now, wash it, and then pre-charge & buffer it. If your recommendation is to do this...how do you pre-charge and buffer your coco? I have Megacrop, Sweet Candy, Bud Explosion, and their Cal Mag.

4) Right now im feeding my two seedlings (they'll go in the autopots when theyre ready) Megacrop only at 1.5g/gal (around 550/0.550 EC) within a range of 6.0-5.9 pH. They're a Zamaldelica Express and a Hubbabubbasmelloscope. Yes...two sativas...lanky sativas. I cant bring myself to only grow one of the two though, not now that they're rooted and such -- im hoping (even though my dad says "hope is not a strategy") that with some extensive LST, ill be able to keep them a reasonable size. Plus right now they're on day 10 and still fairly runty -- so maybe they'll just stay small.

5) Is 18 inches too high up to put my res? I have a little stand next to the tent that id like to place it on.

okay i think those are all my questions! thank you again so much -- you're helping me so so much.

 

[Olderfart]

1) Thank you so much for taking the time to write out such a detailed reply, i really appreciate it!

2) I'm likely going to do exactly what you suggest (no dome, 60 coco/40 perlite all the way down) but im wondering why all i see is people prepping their autopot grows with hydroton? Is it just a case of "someone online told me to do it this way, and i havent questioned it"? I've only ever grown in fabric pots, so im sliiiightly concerned about the lack of air getting to the roots, but if the solid pots were an issue i would have read complaints by now right?

Dunno why other peeps do what they do, I just know that, at least with my setup, air domes are not necessary, and with other's setups that I have seen comments about, airdomes did little or nothing for the plants. The Hydroton issue is a bit different. I think the issue is that the autopot instructions on their website suggest it, so lots of peeps do as they are instructed. The reason I did not use hydroton was because it is clear from general gardening information online that moisture movement can be much reduced by a big change in particle size. Given the conflict in advice, I decided to try my indoor grow as simple as possible and see how that works. Since it resulted is very healthy roots all the way down, I am not interested in complicating things. As to the issue of solid pots, unless you have trouble getting hold of fabric pots, I would stick with them. If you want to reduce volume, you can roll the tops down as I did.

3) question for you: I have a bag of Mother Earth Coco and Biobizz Coco -- i've only used the biobizz coco in my fabric pot, but when i tested the EC of the runoff right out of the bag, it came out to 1700 (1.7) EC! Thats nuts right? They say their coco is pre-buffered and washed though, so maybe thats the EC of their buffer and i screwed up by washing it? I was really scared to put my Jiffy Pots in coco that hot, so i washed it until the EC was as low as i could get it. Then I buffered with Cal Mag, though i am afraid that i didnt do it correctly.

FWIW, I think 1700EC is too high, especially with seedlings. If I were you, I would just give the pots a damn good rinse with dilute nute mix, not plain water, and then re-buffer by giving them a good soak in cal mag mixed at ~2x regular strength, then a final rinsing with dilute nutes, and Bob's yer uncle. OTOH, I have not used the coco products you mention, so I may be missing something.

Now i have two options:
ONE: I can go right back to the bag of Biobizz and use it (unwashed, as is) straight out of the bag into the 2.2Gal pots once i transplant my plants from their solo cups.
TWO: I can take the coco/perlite i have in the fabric pots right now, wash it, and then pre-charge & buffer it. If your recommendation is to do this...how do you pre-charge and buffer your coco? I have Megacrop, Sweet Candy, Bud Explosion, and their Cal Mag.

As I mention above, I would give the pots a good rinse with dilute nutes (this to dilute/remove whatever nute mix is already in there), then a soak in strong CalMag to re-buffer, and then a final rinse with dilute nutes to remove the excess CalMag. Do the final rinse more than once to get the runoff to a similar EC as the input nute solution, and you should be just fine.

4) Right now im feeding my two seedlings (they'll go in the autopots when theyre ready) Megacrop only at 1.5g/gal (around 550/0.550 EC) within a range of 6.0-5.9 pH. They're a Zamaldelica Express and a Hubbabubbasmelloscope. Yes...two sativas...lanky sativas. I cant bring myself to only grow one of the two though, not now that they're rooted and such -- im hoping (even though my dad says "hope is not a strategy") that with some extensive LST, ill be able to keep them a reasonable size. Plus right now they're on day 10 and still fairly runty -- so maybe they'll just stay small.

What the hell, go for it. You will have fun, and likely learn something while producing some nice bud. You will have to be pretty determined to keep both ladies under control, but it can be done. If you get aggressive with training and pruning, you should be able to make two plants produce in there. Great choice of strains if you can make them fit - Mephisto makes great genetics, you will not regret that part of your grow.

I think 550 EC should be pretty much perfect for your seedlings. As they get going, you can take the EC from the base mix up to ~~ 1200 or so safely, but watch the plants for signs of nute toxicity, and back off at the first hint. Too little is better than too much. Measure your EC after adding only the base nute mix, then add SweetCandy and whatever else you want. I would start from the beginning with a low dose of SweetCandy in the mix, and continue with it through the grow (this from @Dabber, not my experience, yet . )

One thing you will need to keep in mind though is that your tent is going to be plugged, so air circulation will need serious attention. You are going to have to trim to keep the canopy open enough for air movement, and especially during flowering, you will absolutely need a least one fan inside the tent. Mephisto strains grow some large and dense buds, so mould avoidance will require care. You will also want to keep your humidity on the low side of VPD chart suggestions during final development of your buds.


18" is just fine. The pressure involved is still tiny, and no problem whatever for the autovalves.

okay i think those are all my questions! thank you again so much -- you're helping me so so much.

You are welcome @briefbriefs, I am just trying to pass on all the great help I have received from far more expert peeps on this site. Good luck with the grow!

See my comments inside the quote window>

 

[Olderfart]

As promised, @briefbriefs some more detail and pics on my reservoir and filter.

The reservoir is a second hand insulated beverage container I picked up in a junk store:

Ignore the fitting near the top of the reservoir - it is for a float valve I will be using for irrigating some other plants with plain water, not for weed. Should I ever go completely organic, I would use the float valve to keep the reservoir full when I am away from home, but if you are mixing nutes, a float valve will bugger up your nute mix.

The fitting at the bottom of the tank is, as I understand it, the water supply fitting for an ice maker. I also picked that up in a junk store for a few bucks, and it works a treat. The red stuff is silicone that I used for mounting the thing onto the reservoir.

The filter element loose:

The filter element wedged in place over the water outlet:

Both ends of this filter are open, so one end has to be sealed over the water outlet, and the other has to be blocked one way or another. I achieved both by wedging the thing in place with firm plastic foam at both ends. Bottom line is that water cannot leave the reservoir without going through the filter element, and this element is much finer and higher capacity than the things provided by Autopot.

Finally, the hose setup:

The tap fitting has a standard compression connector, so a long standard hose (also from a junk store for cheap) was attached, and an autopot fitting installed in the end with a small hose clamp (under the tape). From here, the standard Autopot tubing led to the pots.

Another option which will work with any plastic garbage can, tote, or the like is one of these:

Amazon product

If you get the one with thread on both ends of the fitting, you will have additional options for filter mounting. I used one of these to set up a 45 gallon barrel as the reservoir for some vegies in autopots. With one of these, you can mount a 1/2" threaded tap on the outside of the reservoir so you can turn off the supply in order to work on or clean stuff. One like this would work:

or one like this:

Just make sure that it has the same thread size as your bulkhead fitting. If you get a bulkhead fitting with threads at both ends, you also have a 1/2" thread on the inside for mounting a filter element (more jimmy rigging, but it works).

The filter elements are widely available. I ordered several from Amazon as they are the same that we use on our cistern house supply. The one in the photos was actually cleaned after the winter grow - for this purpose, they would last a long time, many grows would be my guess.

If you want to get something sorted without waiting for Amazon or the like, all this stuff is standard fare at the local hardware/plumbing stores. If you have to buy new, just go for a bulkhead fitting and tap rather than the ice maker thing that I used. You might be better buying the bulkhead fitting and tap locally to make absolutely sure that the two work together the way you want. You can use a short 1/2" garden hose from the tap into your tent, and then use one of the autopot fittings to step down from garden hose to their tubing. You will want to just cut the normal thread fitting off the hose and use a hose clamp where you transition to the tubing.
Good luck with it @briefbriefs, it there is anything else I can help with, give me a shout.

 

[briefbriefs]

As promised, @briefbriefs some more detail and pics on my reservoir and filter.

The reservoir is a second hand insulated beverage container I picked up in a junk store:



Ignore the fitting near the top of the reservoir - it is for a float valve I will be using for irrigating some other plants with plain water, not for weed. Should I ever go completely organic, I would use the float valve to keep the reservoir full when I am away from home, but if you are mixing nutes, a float valve will bugger up your nute mix.

The fitting at the bottom of the tank is, as I understand it, the water supply fitting for an ice maker. I also picked that up in a junk store for a few bucks, and it works a treat. The red stuff is silicone that I used for mounting the thing onto the reservoir.

The filter element loose:



The filter element wedged in place over the water outlet:



Both ends of this filter are open, so one end has to be sealed over the water outlet, and the other has to be blocked one way or another. I achieved both by wedging the thing in place with firm plastic foam at both ends. Bottom line is that water cannot leave the reservoir without going through the filter element, and this element is much finer and higher capacity than the things provided by Autopot.

Finally, the hose setup:



The tap fitting has a standard compression connector, so a long standard hose (also from a junk store for cheap) was attached, and an autopot fitting installed in the end with a small hose clamp (under the tape). From here, the standard Autopot tubing led to the pots.

Another option which will work with any plastic garbage can, tote, or the like is one of these:

Amazon product



If you get the one with thread on both ends of the fitting, you will have additional options for filter mounting. I used one of these to set up a 45 gallon barrel as the reservoir for some vegies in autopots. With one of these, you can mount a 1/2" threaded tap on the outside of the reservoir so you can turn off the supply in order to work on or clean stuff. One like this would work:

or one like this:



Just make sure that it has the same thread size as your bulkhead fitting. If you get a bulkhead fitting with threads at both ends, you also have a 1/2" thread on the inside for mounting a filter element (more jimmy rigging, but it works).

The filter elements are widely available. I ordered several from Amazon as they are the same that we use on our cistern house supply. The one in the photos was actually cleaned after the winter grow - for this purpose, they would last a long time, many grows would be my guess.

If you want to get something sorted without waiting for Amazon or the like, all this stuff is standard fare at the local hardware/plumbing stores. If you have to buy new, just go for a bulkhead fitting and tap rather than the ice maker thing that I used. You might be better buying the bulkhead fitting and tap locally to make absolutely sure that the two work together the way you want. You can use a short 1/2" garden hose from the tap into your tent, and then use one of the autopot fittings to step down from garden hose to their tubing. You will want to just cut the normal thread fitting off the hose and use a hose clamp where you transition to the tubing.
Good luck with it @briefbriefs, it there is anything else I can help with, give me a shout.

holy wow, this is incredible info!! i especially love the filter inside the reservoir. thats something im definitely going to have to implement into mine. Right now im waiting on a 1/4" inline valve to attach to the reservoir as a shut off valve (why this isnt included in the kit, i have no idea. Do you have any advice on the filter selection and which would work best?

 

[briefbriefs]

See my comments inside the quote window>

oh! and thank you so much for guiding me in the right direction here. like, seriously.