Auto x Photo questions on breeding.

[Trippyness]

Hello mates.

New to. breeding autoflowers and have read slot about the recessive genes on autos.

So I am trying to do 2 things.

1. Create a Photo from an auto x photo that has both characteristics of the auto an Photo.
2. Create an auto version.

Strains I will be using are my best Blue Dream Photo mother and her clones.
For the auto I will be using Pollen from Blackberry kush by Dutch passion which is an auto.

So from my understanding the F1 seeds fro the blackberry Kush x blue dream would be 100% photo, but carry the auto recessive gene.

What I would do then would be to grow out a bunch of seeds from the f1 cross and keep all as mothers.
Take cuttings from said mothers and flower them out. Best plant with potency, taste, smell, yield , look/ color would be kept.

Keep her as a stable clone only cross.

Then take a cutting from her and get pollen using CS spray.
Then with another cutting of the f1 clone flower her and pollinate her with the other f1 pollen to create f2 seeds.

So from f2 I am lost on if there would be any autos.

So questions from here are.

How would I go a bout creating a stable photo cross from my auto.
How would I go about creating a stable auto from the auto photo cross?

Any help from experienced breeders would be great.

Not looking for unstable genetics. Looking to stabilize a photo for 100% photo seeds from the auto photo crops as well as to have stable 100% auto seeds from thru auto photo cross. Jut need to know the proper way of going about it.

I also hear backcrossing with the original pollen is a bad idea after the f1.

 

[Joe383]

Your cross of F1 with the same plant would not be F2 I think it would be S1, your selfing the plant. It would be easer to find a good father plant to keep alive for breeding with and do what I think is called B generations so your not herming a mother clone every time. Look up squaring, boxing and cubing when breeding.

 

[Atulip]

The next step would be 25% Autoflower trait, 75% photoperiod. You'd want to grow them out and cross 2 that autoflower. Then you're 100% Auto.

P1 Photo x P1 Auto = F1 photo(recessive auto)
F1 photo x f1 photo = F2 75% photo, 25% Auto
F2 Auto x F2 Auto = F3 100% Auto

F1 will be your all photo cross, but may flower faster and pick up the auto traits. F3 and higher will be all auto.

I believe finding the right phenotypes in the Autos is where it's a little more difficult, since you can't clone and preserve the genetics.

 

[Joe383]

The next step would be 25% Autoflower trait, 75% photoperiod. You'd want to grow them out and cross 2 that autoflower. Then you're 100% Auto.

P1 Photo x P1 Auto = F1 photo(recessive auto)
F1 photo x f1 photo = F2 75% photo, 25% Auto
F2 Auto x F2 Auto = F3 100% Auto

F1 will be your all photo cross, but may flower faster and pick up the auto traits. F3 and higher will be all auto.

I believe finding the right phenotypes in the Autos is where it's a little more difficult, since you can't clone and preserve the genetics.

What my plan is as I am at F1 with my photo to auto cross is to keep my mother plant alive like you ( I am using a fem mother as it is not available in regular) I am going to cross the F1 like Atulip is recommending and going to F3 or F4 than crossing the auto version back with the mother plant and doing the whole project over again. I might cross the auto version later down the road with the same strain again but from a different parent too if I can find one that has the same traits as my current mother plant just to further get the traits I am after with out bottle necking my genetics. My plan for the F2 generation is to plant my limit 16 plants and around day 25 kill all non autos and every thing that dose not resemble my pheno. My state says a plant is anything with a root that is 1" long so at day 20 I will soak 16 more seeds just incase I don't have any good pheno types so I can replant at day 25 when I kill every thing . If I only get 1 good plant than I will keep it alive and kill every thing else and grow 15 more plants with the hopes of getting 1 good parent in time to pollinate the keeper or to use the pollen from my keeper to pollinate with depending on if it turns out to be a male or female. I am not sure what the males from my pheno looks like so its going to be tricky for me but this is how I am doing it.

 

[Trippyness]

Your cross of F1 with the same plant would not be F2 I think it would be S1, your selfing the plant. It would be easer to find a good father plant to keep alive for breeding with and do what I think is called B generations so your not herming a mother clone every time. Look up squaring, boxing and cubing when breeding.

Makes sense. I would just use father pollen then. Have no males due to fem seeds.
Will have quite alot of pollen here soon.
So crossing the F1 with the male pollen would be F2, but backcrossing would be S.
Got it.

 

[Trippyness]

The next step would be 25% Autoflower trait, 75% photoperiod. You'd want to grow them out and cross 2 that autoflower. Then you're 100% Auto.

P1 Photo x P1 Auto = F1 photo(recessive auto)
F1 photo x f1 photo = F2 75% photo, 25% Auto
F2 Auto x F2 Auto = F3 100% Auto

F1 will be your all photo cross, but may flower faster and pick up the auto traits. F3 and higher will be all auto.

I believe finding the right phenotypes in the Autos is where it's a little more difficult, since you can't clone and preserve the genetics.

Cross with the original male pollen or with 2 F1 plants?
Thanks for that.

 

[Trippyness]

What my plan is as I am at F1 with my photo to auto cross is to keep my mother plant alive like you ( I am using a fem mother as it is not available in regular) I am going to cross the F1 like Atulip is recommending and going to F3 or F4 than crossing the auto version back with the mother plant and doing the whole project over again. I might cross the auto version later down the road with the same strain again but from a different parent too if I can find one that has the same traits as my current mother plant just to further get the traits I am after with out bottle necking my genetics. My plan for the F2 generation is to plant my limit 16 plants and around day 25 kill all non autos and every thing that dose not resemble my pheno. My state says a plant is anything with a root that is 1" long so at day 20 I will soak 16 more seeds just incase I don't have any good pheno types so I can replant at day 25 when I kill every thing . If I only get 1 good plant than I will keep it alive and kill every thing else and grow 15 more plants with the hopes of getting 1 good parent in time to pollinate the keeper or to use the pollen from my keeper to pollinate with depending on if it turns out to be a male or female. I am not sure what the males from my pheno looks like so its going to be tricky for me but this is how I am doing it.

So your using your fem photo s the fatherr for pollen? then your crossing the gpod genetics back with the original pollen?
Makes sense now!
Wildl makee a thread about this In a few weeks once I start this

 

[Trippyness]

The next step would be 25% Autoflower trait, 75% photoperiod. You'd want to grow them out and cross 2 that autoflower. Then you're 100% Auto.

P1 Photo x P1 Auto = F1 photo(recessive auto)
F1 photo x f1 photo = F2 75% photo, 25% Auto
F2 Auto x F2 Auto = F3 100% Auto

F1 will be your all photo cross, but may flower faster and pick up the auto traits. F3 and higher will be all auto.

I believe finding the right phenotypes in the Autos is where it's a little more difficult, since you can't clone and preserve the genetics.

Also would this work?
F2 photo x F2 photo = F3 100% photo? Or would only the F1 and F2 photo Be useable for photos and clone only? If so , that means no way of getting 100% photo seeds?
F2 Auto x F2 Auto = F3 100% auto and all future seeds are auto
Thanks

 

[Atulip]

Cross the 2 F1s to go to f2. The f2 photos will be 66% recessive Auto, 33% non recessive. Two F2 photoperiods together could make some(25%) auto seeds if they're both holding the recessive auto gene. But if you manage to breed with one that's not recessive auto, you could go to f3 100% photoperiod(recessive auto), or if you cross 2 of the f2 photos not holding the recessive gene, you can go to f3 100% photoperiod non recessive. The only way to really test is to grow a bunch of beans you made and see if any autod.

F1 will be your only known 100% photoperiod seeds. Unless at some point you breed with a known non recessive photoperiod, then you're back to all photoperiod seeds.

I don't know about back crossing with P1, someone else would have to chime in on that.

 

[Trippyness]

Cross the 2 F1s to go to f2. The f2 photos will be 66% recessive Auto, 33% non recessive. Two F2 photoperiods together could make some(25%) auto seeds if they're both holding the recessive auto gene. But if you manage to breed with one that's not recessive auto, you could go to f3 100% photoperiod(recessive auto), or if you cross 2 of the f2 photos not holding the recessive gene, you can go to f3 100% photoperiod non recessive. The only way to really test is to grow a bunch of beans you made and see if any autod.

F1 will be your only known 100% photoperiod seeds. Unless at some point you breed with a known non recessive photoperiod, then you're back to all photoperiod seeds.

I don't know about back crossing with P1, someone else would have to chime in on that.

thanks. That really helped me understand. Will keep this forum updated on my findings.