New Grower 2nd plant - first grow NYCD Auto

Some great info from @Prophetiko there. If you can get a probe that would be ideal if not the runoff test can be a bit of a gamble but is probably the only option left.
Maybe calibrate your ph pen as well just to be sure.
I dont think the topmax will be doing any harm its npk is 0.1-0.01-0.1 its basically a humic and fulvic suppliment.
Thanks bud! Gotta remember that humic and fulvic acids are chelators that make nutrients more available in the soil. So even though the npk reading is low, it may be making the n, p, or k levels n the soil increase. That's why Im leaning towards a lock out. Like Archie, I doubt it's a soil ph issue if the feeds have been in range. I'm leaning more towards a lock out. If every watering has nutrients in it, the ppm of the run off is probably in the thousands!
 
I had a £10 ph meter.i then had to spend £30 on various fluids.
Sad thing is unless you spend £50 plus on a pen,anything cheaper just aint worth a shite.( i went and spent £70 on a ph pen...ive used it 3 times this year and calibrated it twice)
Soil probes same applies if its not an acurite8 not worth a shite.
Soil needs to be moist to give a proper reading,dry or wet soil will gove an iffy reading.
The runoff theory is a calculation based on a formula kinda thing so gives some iffy readings.
Biobizz is good soil i have no reason to believe the ph is high or low.
If the feeds in are within range,soil started within range,soil/pot ph should allways be between the lowest and highest feeds ph ranges.
My vote is for poor calibrated or ph of pen is miles off true.
:pighug:
Yeah was thinking that alright that’s why o haven’t bought one already
Thanks bud! Gotta remember that humic and fulvic acids are chelators that make nutrients more available in the soil. So even though the npk reading is low, it may be making the n, p, or k levels n the soil increase. That's why Im leaning towards a lock out. Like Archie, I doubt it's a soil ph issue if the feeds have been in range. I'm leaning more towards a lock out. If every watering has nutrients in it, the ppm of the run off is probably in the thousands!

I don’t think the ph is out myself so what would you suggest seeing as I won’t have a soil ph meter until Monday or Tuesday and I’m heading away tomorrow give it a mini flush?
 
A
Yeah was thinking that alright that’s why o haven’t bought one already


I don’t think the ph is out myself so what would you suggest seeing as I won’t have a soil ph meter until Monday or Tuesday and I’m heading away tomorrow give it a mini flush?
A mini flush wouldn't hurt! You can always try that as a starter.. I have two soil probes.. A cheap $10 one from home depot and the $100 one from Accurate. The HD probe works fine. It's just to give you an idea whether your ph is out of wack or not. It doesn't have to be exact. And if you honestly feel like the soil ph isn't the real culprit, I'd invest in a ppm meter first. Or get cheap versions of both. You'll eventually need to use them both regardless.

The ppm of your feed is very important. If the ppms are too high, it can over saturate the soil with nutes and cause a lock of different nutrients. That's why most recommend watering plants using the "feed, water, water, feed" process. That's using nutes with the first watering of the week.. Then on the next two waterings, it's water only.. Then end the week with a nutrient feed. This helps prevents that nutrients build up/over saturation in the soil. The ppm, by rule of thumb, shouldn't be over 1000 ppm max. And that's pushing it. I don't go higher than 700 ppm. For reference, here's a general ppm usage chart/list..

clones /seedlings -
week 1 - 140ppm / 0.2 ec
week 2 - 210ppm / 0.3 ec

veg
week 1 - 350ppm / 0.5 ec
week 2 - 420ppm / 0.7 ec
week 3 - 550-650 ppm / 0.8-0.9ec

bloom - transition
week 1 - 700ppm / 1.0 ec
week 2 - 800ppm / 1.1 ec

full bloom
weeks 3 - 5 (or more) - 800-900ppm / 1.2-1.3 ec

Keep im mind that these numbers are based on photo period plants and would a little less for autos. But it gives you a good idea of how it works. I bet money that if you check the ppm of your run off water, it's over 3000ppms, which is definitely lock out range.. I'd flush it until the ppms are around 500 or so.
 
A
A mini flush wouldn't hurt! You can always try that as a starter.. I have two soil probes.. A cheap $10 one from home depot and the $100 one from Accurate. The HD probe works fine. It's just to give you an idea whether your ph is out of wack or not. It doesn't have to be exact. And if you honestly feel like the soil ph isn't the real culprit, I'd invest in a ppm meter first. Or get cheap versions of both. You'll eventually need to use them both regardless.

The ppm of your feed is very important. If the ppms are too high, it can over saturate the soil with nutes and cause a lock of different nutrients. That's why most recommend watering plants using the "feed, water, water, feed" process. That's using nutes with the first watering of the week.. Then on the next two waterings, it's water only.. Then end the week with a nutrient feed. This helps prevents that nutrients build up/over saturation in the soil. The ppm, by rule of thumb, shouldn't be over 1000 ppm max. And that's pushing it. I don't go higher than 700 ppm. For reference, here's a general ppm usage chart/list..

clones /seedlings -
week 1 - 140ppm / 0.2 ec
week 2 - 210ppm / 0.3 ec

veg
week 1 - 350ppm / 0.5 ec
week 2 - 420ppm / 0.7 ec
week 3 - 550-650 ppm / 0.8-0.9ec

bloom - transition
week 1 - 700ppm / 1.0 ec
week 2 - 800ppm / 1.1 ec

full bloom
weeks 3 - 5 (or more) - 800-900ppm / 1.2-1.3 ec

Keep im mind that these numbers are based on photo period plants and would a little less for autos. But it gives you a good idea of how it works. I bet money that if you check the ppm of your run off water, it's over 3000ppms, which is definitely lock out range.. I'd flush it until the ppms are around 500 or so.

Great man thanks I actually have a ppm pen and the last plants ppm run off was over 1000 and plant was fine. I was told ppm doesn’t come into play usually when feeding organic nutes in soil:shrug:i will flush with plain water until ppm low under 500 then a light feed of nutrients? The ppm of my water is 178 and ph 7.3 so what nutes you reckon after the flush or just plain water?
 
cool info @Prophetiko :pass:
this plant was poorly how long before day 47 ?
at day 46 it was getting 1 calmag,1.5 grow,1 topmax,1 algmic,3 heaven. how many ppms is that ?
ohh wait a second,did you say you get limescale in kettle ?
:pighug:
 
It
cool info @Prophetiko :pass:
this plant was poorly how long before day 47 ?
at day 46 it was getting 1 calmag,1.5 grow,1 topmax,1 algmic,3 heaven. how many ppms is that ?
ohh wait a second,did you say you get limescale in kettle ?
:pighug:

Was poorly since the start this little one. I overwatered at the start in solo cup and it stayed wet for too long I didn’t have a little fan blowing around to help the soil dry up and the plant was bright yellow from after the 2nd week I think. The plant is slowly getting greener a long time and is a lot greener now than it was a few weeks ago. I had the biogrow up to 3ml a few feeds ago I’m sure it’s most likely a high ppm in the soil gonna flush her out a little like @Prophetiko said and see how she is when I get back in a couple days :thumbsup: I’ll post tomorrow the ppm of run off and I’m sure we’ll all be shocked:crying:

When my first plant was ready for harvest I neglected this one really and have learnt my lesson:doh:
 
Great man thanks I actually have a ppm pen and the last plants ppm run off was over 1000 and plant was fine. I was told ppm doesn’t come into play usually when feeding organic nutes in soil:shrug:i will flush with plain water until ppm low under 500 then a light feed of nutrients? The ppm of my water is 178 and ph 7.3 so what nutes you reckon after the flush or just plain water?
Rule 876 of growing your own: Every plant is different. They are like humans in the fact that no two plants will be exactly a like. You can't fairly compare any past plant, to this one.. They each have different needs. Your first plant with no issues could have been a resilient plant with a huge appetite. This one could be super sensitive, as well as being a light feeder. 1000ppms could work fine on one plant, and burn the plant right next to it. That's why they say to start nutes at half strength and work your way up if needed. Learn to watch the plant.. It may not need half the things it's being fed.. If it does want or need them, it will show signs of it.. It's easier to add more nutrients than it is to remove excess nutrients. Less is more! I don't want you to take my suggestions as the law of Moses, lol.. I just want to give you a few things to think about while you try to figure this out. Soil ph, run off ppm, flush, ect. I don't think you'll need to add more nutrients immediately after the flush. 500-600 ppms in soil is a good amount of nutrients. Look for improvements the first few days after the flush. If a few leaves start getting green, do water only one more time or use nutes at 1/2 strength.

Im not sure who said ppms don't matter with organics.. But that's unfortunately not true. Ppms always matter, regardless of the medium used. I grow totally organic, and in my opinion, its easier to burn/over feed your plants with dry organic amendments, in organic soil, than it is with bottles.. Now, when growing organic, the PH doesn't really matter much. I never check the ph of my water or feeds.. And only check the soil if I see issues starting.. But ppms still get checked regularly. Because that's what tells us how big of a meal our plants are getting.. Think of 1000 ppms as a kings feast.. 500 ppms is like taking the plant to a nice steak house.. Again, every plant is different. Some some can eat a kings feast or a steakhouse meal every other day.. Some just want soup and a salad, lol. The plant will tell you everything it wants and needs..

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been covered or asked yet is regarding the environment. If the temps are off or if the plant was stressed early on, that can cause these types of issues as well. Probably not likely, but worth asking and looking into just in case. So what are your temps/humidity levels like? Airflow ect?
 
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Rule 876 of growing your own: Every plant is different. They are like humans in the fact that no two plants will be exactly a like. You can't fairly compare any past plant, to this one.. They each have different needs. Your first plant with no issues could have been a resilient plant with a huge appetite. This one could be super sensitive, as well as being a light feeder. 1000ppms could work fine on one plant, and burn the plant right next to it. That's why they say to start nutes at half strength and work your way up if needed. Learn to watch the plant.. It may not need half the things it's being fed.. If it does want or need them, it will show signs of it.. It's easier to add more nutrients than it is to remove excess nutrients. Less is more! I don't want you to take my suggestions as the law of Moses, lol.. I just want to give you a few things to think about while you try to figure this out. Soil ph, run off ppm, flush, ect. I don't think you'll need to add more nutrients immediately after the flush. 500-600 ppms in soil is a good amount of nutrients. Look for improvements the first few days after the flush. If a few leaves start getting green, do water only one more time or use nutes at 1/2 strength.

Im not sure who said ppms don't matter with organics.. But that's unfortunately not true. Ppms always matter, regardless of the medium used. I grow totally organic, and in my opinion, its easier to burn/over feed your plants with dry organic amendments, in organic soil, than it is with bottles.. Now, when growing organic, the PH doesn't really matter much. I never check the ph of my water or feeds.. And only check the soil if I see issues starting.. But ppms still get checked regularly. Because that's what tells us how big of a meal our plants are getting.. Think of 1000 ppms as a kings feast.. 500 ppms is like taking the plant to a nice steak house.. Again, every plant is different. Some some can eat a kings feast or a steakhouse meal every other day.. Some just want soup and a salad, lol. The plant will tell you everything it wants and needs..

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been covered or asked yet is regarding the environment. If the temps are off or if the plant was stressed early on, that can cause these types of issues as well. Probably not likely, but worth asking and looking into just in case. So what are your temps/humidity levels like? Airflow ect?

Thanks very much man that’s great info I appreciate it there is a lot to learn.

I can remember checking the ppm of the biobizz nutes when I was at starting doses like 1-2ml of a few products and the ppm would be very high and then people were also saying that biobizz nutes are very hard to burn your plant with so the whole ppm doesn’t matter thing made sense to me after reading a few charts on amount of ppm nutes at different stages I assumed it didnt matter so much so thanks for clearing that up :thumbsup:

Temps are fairly good at around 75-78 daytime and at night and drops to around 67-70 at night and I have 2 oscillation fans one below and one above. RH is mid 40’s lights on and doesn’t creep much over 50 when lights out so all good air is being extracted outside.

I flushed with the plain 7.3 ph water until run off was less than 600ppm it surely was lockout of nutrients thanks man. I am embarrassed to say what the ppm reading was of the run off at first :crying:
 

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Rule 876 of growing your own: Every plant is different. They are like humans in the fact that no two plants will be exactly a like. You can't fairly compare any past plant, to this one.. They each have different needs. Your first plant with no issues could have been a resilient plant with a huge appetite. This one could be super sensitive, as well as being a light feeder. 1000ppms could work fine on one plant, and burn the plant right next to it. That's why they say to start nutes at half strength and work your way up if needed. Learn to watch the plant.. It may not need half the things it's being fed.. If it does want or need them, it will show signs of it.. It's easier to add more nutrients than it is to remove excess nutrients. Less is more! I don't want you to take my suggestions as the law of Moses, lol.. I just want to give you a few things to think about while you try to figure this out. Soil ph, run off ppm, flush, ect. I don't think you'll need to add more nutrients immediately after the flush. 500-600 ppms in soil is a good amount of nutrients. Look for improvements the first few days after the flush. If a few leaves start getting green, do water only one more time or use nutes at 1/2 strength.

Im not sure who said ppms don't matter with organics.. But that's unfortunately not true. Ppms always matter, regardless of the medium used. I grow totally organic, and in my opinion, its easier to burn/over feed your plants with dry organic amendments, in organic soil, than it is with bottles.. Now, when growing organic, the PH doesn't really matter much. I never check the ph of my water or feeds.. And only check the soil if I see issues starting.. But ppms still get checked regularly. Because that's what tells us how big of a meal our plants are getting.. Think of 1000 ppms as a kings feast.. 500 ppms is like taking the plant to a nice steak house.. Again, every plant is different. Some some can eat a kings feast or a steakhouse meal every other day.. Some just want soup and a salad, lol. The plant will tell you everything it wants and needs..

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been covered or asked yet is regarding the environment. If the temps are off or if the plant was stressed early on, that can cause these types of issues as well. Probably not likely, but worth asking and looking into just in case. So what are your temps/humidity levels like? Airflow ect?

@Prophetiko just got back after being away for a few days been 3 days since flush and an explosion of growth and plant is getting much greener and starting to smell :biggrin: would you recommend maybe another plain water before introducing nutes again or start back with low strength nutes?

I went ahead and gave feed with 0.5ml grow, bloom and calmag per litre and also topmax @ 1 ml per litre. The ppm of feed was 536 and the run off was about 560ppm
 

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@Prophetiko at day 57 now only starting to form flowers properly so think this 2nd one going to take a little longer the iron deficiency and ph lockout have been sorted with the flush. Thanks to help here she is looking healthier :d5: it’s just the cob led makes it look yellower than it is
 

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