Lux/ppfd/DLI chart for Autos?

[Srfr]

Hi all, my first proper post here so lets see what kind of crowd is at AFN!?
I'm growing 4 Mephisto crosses in 3 gallon fabric pots in a 2x4 tent.
(I'm prettty excited about these as I got them from a breeder in Seattle who posted them to the UK)
Plat OG x Zkittles Dad x Sour Orange Deisel Kush (Mephisto)
"Purple Hazy Chemtrails" - PH dad x Crem de la Chem x Forum Stomper (from Mephisto Genetics)
"Sour Bears" - Carebear dad ( Blue bear OG x Zkittles) x Sour Stomper (from Mephisto)
PH dad x Sweet and Sour (from Mephisto)
Soil is 50% Old Timers, 25% EWC and 25% perlite (Loki's formula from GrassCity Fortum). I'm using a 250w Unit Farm LED bar (made by Mars but upgraded chips, similar to SP250). My girls are 11 days old and very happy at 24ºC and 70% hum. I pulled 450g out of this little tent last run which suprised me as it was very crowded in there. So, without changing too much I though I'd do the same again but make a few tweaks. I've stuck a 60w heat mat under them and am running a 24 hour lighting schedule, all to keep the temps in the right region. I've got a humidifier in there and a new 5" RVK and Ram filter so have improved extraction (I struggled with inferior gear with the heat in the summer). I'm running to my VPD chars as much as I can.
So, my question is, and I have had a good dig about to no avail, does anyone have a ppfd chart for autos with a week by week ballpark figure? I have a lux meter and using this conversion: https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/blogs/calculators/converting-lux-to-ppfd I can work out PPFD (chose the one with the correct colour temp, mine is 4000 kelvin). I found this calculator for DLI (Daily Light Integral): https://scynceled.com/technology/dli-calculator/ so I can work out the correct amount of ppfd to give my plants over the 24 hour light cycle. All good, except I only have very vague numbers for plant requirements based on their growth stage:

Seedlings, Clones	Under 100 PPFD
Veg, Greens	150 PPFD - 400 PPFD
Extended Veg with healthy plants	350 PPFD to 500 PPFD
Flowering, Fruits	400 PPFD to 800 PPFD
Flowering with Supplement CO2	600 PPFD to 1100 PPFD

Has anyone got a more precise timeline? For instance I know to give my new seedlings less than 100ppfd but how much to ramp up and when? I thought I knew what I was doing but I'm learning this run by backing my lights off that my seedlings are growing faster than ever! Ideally I'm looking for a week by week chart with ballpark numbers. I'll still look to see how my plants are reacting but I feel it will give me a lot more confidence and a good benchmark to experiment from.
What you got AFN?

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Hi all, my first proper post here so lets see what kind of crowd is at AFN!?
I'm growing 4 Mephisto crosses in 3 gallon fabric pots in a 2x4 tent.
(I'm prettty excited about these as I got them from a breeder in Seattle who posted them to the UK)
Plat OG x Zkittles Dad x Sour Orange Deisel Kush (Mephisto)
"Purple Hazy Chemtrails" - PH dad x Crem de la Chem x Forum Stomper (from Mephisto Genetics)
"Sour Bears" - Carebear dad ( Blue bear OG x Zkittles) x Sour Stomper (from Mephisto)
PH dad x Sweet and Sour (from Mephisto)
Soil is 50% Old Timers, 25% EWC and 25% perlite (Loki's formula from GrassCity Fortum). I'm using a 250w Unit Farm LED bar (made by Mars but upgraded chips, similar to SP250). My girls are 11 days old and very happy at 24ºC and 70% hum. I pulled 450g out of this little tent last run which suprised me as it was very crowded in there. So, without changing too much I though I'd do the same again but make a few tweaks. I've stuck a 60w heat mat under them and am running a 24 hour lighting schedule, all to keep the temps in the right region. I've got a humidifier in there and a new 5" RVK and Ram filter so have improved extraction (I struggled with inferior gear with the heat in the summer). I'm running to my VPD chars as much as I can.
So, my question is, and I have had a good dig about to no avail, does anyone have a ppfd chart for autos with a week by week ballpark figure? I have a lux meter and using this conversion: https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/blogs/calculators/converting-lux-to-ppfd I can work out PPFD (chose the one with the correct colour temp, mine is 4000 kelvin). I found this calculator for DLI (Daily Light Integral): https://scynceled.com/technology/dli-calculator/ so I can work out the correct amount of ppfd to give my plants over the 24 hour light cycle. All good, except I only have very vague numbers for plant requirements based on their growth stage:

Seedlings, Clones	Under 100 PPFD
Veg, Greens	150 PPFD - 400 PPFD
Extended Veg with healthy plants	350 PPFD to 500 PPFD
Flowering, Fruits	400 PPFD to 800 PPFD
Flowering with Supplement CO2	600 PPFD to 1100 PPFD

Has anyone got a more precise timeline? For instance I know to give my new seedlings less than 100ppfd but how much to ramp up and when? I thought I knew what I was doing but I'm learning this run by backing my lights off that my seedlings are growing faster than ever! Ideally I'm looking for a week by week chart with ballpark numbers. I'll still look to see how my plants are reacting but I feel it will give me a lot more confidence and a good benchmark to experiment from.

What you got AFN?

You can use a LUX meter but it is going to be wrong as it isn't a measure by which to determine the effectiveness on plants. The only way it works is if you have the conversation factor from PPFD to LUX provided by the Spectral Distribution. HLGs calculator probably works best for their own lights but in my testing you need a PAR meter.

The file I provided gives a week by week light dosing regimen from clones to harvest under ambient c02. 24 hours of light is unnecessary as the Calvin cycle is important to plant growth regardless of whether they are auto or not. Same goes for their DLI/PPFD requirements. Unless you're running c02 7-800 range is enough for most indoor growers.

You can also rent a PAR meter for a few days for around $40 and spend that time mapping your values at different heights/intensities.

Hope that helps

 

[Dabacadabra]

I found a chart in a video by MIGRO on youtube that shows multiple readings with a par and lux meter with a few different light sources. Pretty handy as a reference.

 

[Srfr]

You can use a LUX meter but it is going to be wrong as it isn't a measure by which to determine the effectiveness on plants. The only way it works is if you have the conversation factor from PPFD to LUX provided by the Spectral Distribution. HLGs calculator probably works best for their own lights but in my testing you need a PAR meter.

The file I provided gives a week by week light dosing regimen from clones to harvest under ambient c02. 24 hours of light is unnecessary as the Calvin cycle is important to plant growth regardless of whether they are auto or not. Same goes for their DLI/PPFD requirements. Unless you're running c02 7-800 range is enough for most indoor growers.

You can also rent a PAR meter for a few days for around $40 and spend that time mapping your values at different heights/intensities.

Hope that helps

Thanks for this, I'll take a look when I get a chance. It looks exactly what I was after. I understand what you are saying but I'm looking for ballpark figures only. I've looked at a couple of conversion calculators for 4k LED's and they arent wildly different. And finally, I need the 24 hour light schedule to keep my temps in the right region, and thats with a heat mat and a tube heater in there! I usually run 20/4 but needs must. I've run 18/6 and 24 hours before and TBH I dont see much diferance. I'd rateher give them a dark period as it just feels right but those rudy genes dont need it. This is one of THOSE conversations...lol. I'm sticking with DLI over the 24 hours and that where your helpful chart will (hopefully) come in super handy. I almost always overdo the light. By backing off this run, my seedlings are looking better than ever.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Thanks for this, I'll take a look when I get a chance. It looks exactly what I was after. I understand what you are saying but I'm looking for ballpark figures only. I've looked at a couple of conversion calculators for 4k LED's and they arent wildly different. And finally, I need the 24 hour light schedule to keep my temps in the right region, and thats with a heat mat and a tube heater in there! I usually run 20/4 but needs must. I've run 18/6 and 24 hours before and TBH I dont see much diferance. I'd rateher give them a dark period as it just feels right but those rudy genes dont need it. This is one of THOSE conversations...lol. I'm sticking with DLI over the 24 hours and that where your helpful chart will (hopefully) come in super handy. I almost always overdo the light. By backing off this run, my seedlings are looking better than ever.

Well I would map the ppfd to get your DLI over 20/4, I still think you could allow a slight temperature drop for four hours but that is up to you. The other thing is whether

For accuracy a par meter is essential but if you just want generalities then the Manufacturer ppfd chart is more than enough to to figure where you need to be for 40-65 DLI.

Wish I knew more about the light, I can't find any information on it.

 

[Srfr]

Well I would map the ppfd to get your DLI over 20/4, I still think you could allow a slight temperature drop for four hours but that is up to you. The other thing is whether

For accuracy a par meter is essential but if you just want generalities then the Manufacturer ppfd chart is more than enough to to figure where you need to be for 40-65 DLI.

Wish I knew more about the light, I can't find any information on it.

At the moment I'm ticking over at 75ºf (24ºc) and it's the lights keeping me above 20ºc so I'll stick with it. It really isnrt a deal breaker.

 

[Srfr]

You can use a LUX meter but it is going to be wrong as it isn't a measure by which to determine the effectiveness on plants. The only way it works is if you have the conversation factor from PPFD to LUX provided by the Spectral Distribution. HLGs calculator probably works best for their own lights but in my testing you need a PAR meter.

The file I provided gives a week by week light dosing regimen from clones to harvest under ambient c02. 24 hours of light is unnecessary as the Calvin cycle is important to plant growth regardless of whether they are auto or not. Same goes for their DLI/PPFD requirements. Unless you're running c02 7-800 range is enough for most indoor growers.

You can also rent a PAR meter for a few days for around $40 and spend that time mapping your values at different heights/intensities.

Hope that helps

Hi again. I had a good look at your chart and it feels good! I had to make a couple of assumptions as it's for clones and photoperiod plants and I didn't want to reduce light at what would be flip, so I extended the veg-early flower numbers. I did the calculations for DLI/ppfd/Lux for a 24 hour lighting period and a 4k LED and came up with this chart which I'm going to try out. There's lots off things that can alter these numbers but for me, this is simply giving me a little more confidence that my light levels are somewhere near where they should be. Obviously I'll be watching my plants to see how they react. I take your points on the accuracy of the conversions but as I'm in a 4x2 tent I can hardly justify a PAR meter.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Hi again. I had a good look at your chart and it feels good! I had to make a couple of assumptions as it's for clones and photoperiod plants and I didn't want to reduce light at what would be flip, so I extended the veg-early flower numbers. I did the calculations for DLI/ppfd/Lux for a 24 hour lighting period and a 4k LED and came up with this chart which I'm going to try out. There's lots off things that can alter these numbers but for me, this is simply giving me a little more confidence that my light levels are somewhere near where they should be. Obviously I'll be watching my plants to see how they react. I take your points on the accuracy of the conversions but as I'm in a 4x2 tent I can hardly justify a PAR meter.
Thanks for your help.
View attachment 1281566

Rental: Apogee MQ-510 Par Meter: Full-Spectrum Underwater Quantum Meter + Wand

Rent the newest Apogee MQ-510 Par meter specially designed to measure the blue light emited from LEDs. Rental price starts at $15 and shipped directly to your door. Don't settle for cheap inaccurate equipment anymore. Find out exactly what par your coral needs.

www.podyourreef.com

They let you rent for a few days so you don't have to buy a meter. I think if you get everything dialed in you'll be able to hit 75g per sqft.

 

[Atulip]

Rental: Apogee MQ-510 Par Meter: Full-Spectrum Underwater Quantum Meter + Wand

Rent the newest Apogee MQ-510 Par meter specially designed to measure the blue light emited from LEDs. Rental price starts at $15 and shipped directly to your door. Don't settle for cheap inaccurate equipment anymore. Find out exactly what par your coral needs.

www.podyourreef.com

They let you rent for a few days so you don't have to buy a meter. I think if you get everything dialed in you'll be able to hit 75g per sqft.

That's 800g/m2.

Lux meters are also good for measuring spread if you can't get a par meter. I'm not for changing the light intensity as they grow myself; I just spread my lights evenly over the area and let them be.

 

[pg2052]

Found myself admiring some guy's autos on growdiaries and this is the schedule he follows...so I'm going to do the same next grow.

AUTO FLOWER LED LIGHT INTENSITY
Recommended LED PPF/PAR Values / DLI Based on 20 hrs. of light.
Seedlings 150 - 200 umol / DLI 10.80 - 14.4 moles per day
Veg up to 9" 450 umol / DLI 32.40 moles per day
Early bloom 500 umol / DLI 36.00 moles per day
Mid bloom 650 umol / DLI 46.80 moles per day
Late bloom 750 umol / DLI 54.00 moles per day
Ripen 400 umol / DLI 28.80 moles per day
*** Use extreme caution going 700 umol or higher @ 20 hrs/day this could cause leaf burn***