Grow Mediums Why organic nutrients do not work in coco

[the123321]

I am in my first grow and I tried dr earth dry slow release fertilizer mixed into the coco coir with perlite. It was recommended by many people on the forum to not do it. I tried it anyway and I wish I had not. I have learned my lesson on that and I am now trying a more proven method with biotabs for my next grow on there.

I would like to talk through the organic nutrients and why they do not work with someone that knows more about it. My understanding is that coco does not hold onto the nutrients like soil does and you also water coco like 2-3 times more often than you do with soil then if you follow the recommended levels on the bag that is recommended for soil it is more nutrients than the plants want since you are watering more often it releases the nutrients 2-3 times more often than it would in soil right? In coco if you water to runoff like is what many websites recommend then you water away the dry amendments you mixed into the coco. Then would you be able to do dry amendments in coco if you do like 1/3 of the recommended level mixed in with the coco and instead of watering to runoff you water it and let the pot sit in the runoff long enough to wick it back into the pot? Then it is not losing those nutrients and the plant gets it back when it wicks back up into the pot on there.

Then if you do a much lower amount of the nutrients mixed in to make up for the extra watering you do on coco with the not draining to waste and letting the plant wick the water with nutrients back into the pot would that not make it work better with coco? Like do 1/3 of the recommended amount of dry slow release organic fertilizer mixed into the pot then top dress it more often to make up for that on there.

I know that organic fertilizer in coco is not recommended and I am not planning to try dr earth dry fertilizer in my next grow I am just wanting to talk it out with those of you that know more about this than I do. I have read that many people are wanting to try dry amendments in coco then it would likely be helpful to them if there is a way to make that work on there.

 

[Proph]

You have to know or understand how dry amendments work, and how they work with microbes. Same with coco coir. Learn what it is and how it works.. Learn about Coco and cation exchange. Coco is considered a form of hydro. Hydro means water based. Hydro growers do not use dry amendments.. The people who use dry amendments in coco aren't using plain old coco and perlite. They are using amended coco with several other things added to make it operated more like soil. Things like compost, microbes and organic matter. If you are switching to biotabs and coco, you will have the exact same problems and questions if you do not learn how these nutrients and mediums work. Bio Tabs is a slow release dry amendment. Its just compressed into the shape of a disk. The more you water, the more it releases.. Same as top dressing. The difference with bio tabs, is that you don't know what nutrients are being released, how much of it, or when. If you water to run off, it will still wash out some of the nutrients. Same issues.

 

[the123321]

Thanks. The biotabs people have listed that you can use 50 50 coco perlite in the recommended just add water method guide.

https://biotabs.nl/pdfs/organic-growing-manual-en.pdf

I have read many posts online of people that have made biotabs work with coco. This thread is more about why the dr earth dry amendments did not work with coco and trying to figure out how to make it work as something to talk about not that I want to try it again. I learned my lesson this grow and do not plan to try the dr earth in coco for a while. I was hoping the biotabs would be much better with how they advertise that you can use it with coco on there.

 

[Proph]

Thanks. The biotabs people have listed that you can use 50 50 coco perlite in the recommended just add water method guide.

https://biotabs.nl/pdfs/organic-growing-manual-en.pdf

I have read many posts online of people that have made biotabs work with coco. This thread is more about why the dr earth dry amendments did not work with coco and trying to figure out how to make it work as something to talk about not that I want to try it again. I learned my lesson this grow and do not plan to try the dr earth in coco for a while. I was hoping the biotabs would be much better with how they advertise that you can use it with coco on there.

I just explained why it didn't work well.. Most of us here have tried to help you your journey. We give you best info we can, based on our experiences. And it seems like everytime we do, your reply is that a website or you-tuber told you can.. I've explained to you a few times how microbes work and what they do. I've explained that coco is hydro... I explained how to top dress. I advised you not to top dress with both products.. I advised you to follow the instructions on the packaging.. Your grow didn't work well because you followed the instructions of some you tube guy who's plants look like crap and who makes no sense when he talks. I feel like I can't attempt to help this situation anymore. No matter what I advise or explain, I feel like you will refer back to what a website or you tuber says and do what they say.. I wish you much success on your journey. I hope you find all the answers you are looking for! Either here on site, by trial and error, or through self education!

 

[the123321]

Thanks. I did follow the instructions on the dr earth bag and that is what I think is making the problems in that with you watering the coco more often it releases the dr earth dry amendments more often than the instructions are meant for so I think if I was to do it again I would do like 1/3 of the recommended level on the bag. I am not following the youtuber. That just gave me the idea originally. Either way this thread is not about me trying to make it work it is about talking out why it does not work in coco and trying to figure out ways to adapt it to make it work on there. In my posts I have had many people say that they thought about trying it and with there not being information out there with a guide on how to do it I thought I would post a thread and talk it through and try to figure out how to make it work on there.

 

[oldnewbdude]

Alright growbro lemme see of I can give you the sci on this one. I work in scientifical fields and such. Soil by definition is a complex array of organic and inorganic material. Not organic like the nutes and grocers say, organic as in living right. There's all sort of rocks, minerals, detritus, bacteria, fungi, macroorganisms, and the list goes on. Coco is a matrix of fibers and pith with good water retention. Most of it is washed to bejeesus and basically sterile and nutrient free. It might as well be inorganic. You add to it what you want, control every input. Soil is alive and you feed the microbes, not the plant. You're trying to use things primarily designed to feed soil to a medium that even with inoculation has a weak soil food web at best. The roots can't process most of that stuff, soil organisms do though, and their byproducts are usable to the plant especially with the help of symbiotic bacteria and fungi. The coco simply doesn't have enough biological processing power to convert amendments into usable forms for the plant. Hope that helps. For what it's worth I know nothing of either Dr Earth or Biotabs products, these are fundamental truths.
To make it work use the coco as a component if a more complex, organic based soil.

 

[Archaic]

Coco is coco, soil is soil. I'm going to piss you off (and a lot of other people) when I say this - plants don't care about whether the nutrition they receive is organically based or mineral based. A phosphate ion is a phosphate ion, don't make things complicated. Nobody grows organic in coco because coco isn't how plants grow in nature. Either go buy some GH or Megacrop and keep the coco, or get some soil and go organic. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel, there are a hundred growers in here that have already been down this road.

 

[MesaBoogie]

So I think a lot of the guys trying the organic nutes in COCo are from a "youtuber" Mr.Canuk. He seems to grow some pretty nice autoflowers with Gaia green dry amendments. He has a pretty large audience and influence. He seems to go against every bit of good advice coco experts will tell you. He's growing in strait coco (mokoko) and a small amount of perlite with 6.2-6.5 ph tap water.

So I've seen a few failed grow journals following his method, so I have to question is this guy full of Sh#$ ?
He's a fellow Canadian and I want to believe ! So I stuck a auto in some coco (washed and soaked in cal/mag) and gaia green mix PH'd to 6.2. I can afford to lose a plant for the cause and I'll give an update if anyone's interested. 5 days in so far and looks like any other day 5 auto.

 

[Hypathetical Gardener]

I am in my first grow and I tried dr earth dry slow release fertilizer mixed into the coco coir with perlite. It was recommended by many people on the forum to not do it. I tried it anyway and I wish I had not. I have learned my lesson on that and I am now trying a more proven method with biotabs for my next grow on there.

I would like to talk through the organic nutrients and why they do not work with someone that knows more about it. My understanding is that coco does not hold onto the nutrients like soil does and you also water coco like 2-3 times more often than you do with soil then if you follow the recommended levels on the bag that is recommended for soil it is more nutrients than the plants want since you are watering more often it releases the nutrients 2-3 times more often than it would in soil right? In coco if you water to runoff like is what many websites recommend then you water away the dry amendments you mixed into the coco. Then would you be able to do dry amendments in coco if you do like 1/3 of the recommended level mixed in with the coco and instead of watering to runoff you water it and let the pot sit in the runoff long enough to wick it back into the pot? Then it is not losing those nutrients and the plant gets it back when it wicks back up into the pot on there.

Then if you do a much lower amount of the nutrients mixed in to make up for the extra watering you do on coco with the not draining to waste and letting the plant wick the water with nutrients back into the pot would that not make it work better with coco? Like do 1/3 of the recommended amount of dry slow release organic fertilizer mixed into the pot then top dress it more often to make up for that on there.

I know that organic fertilizer in coco is not recommended and I am not planning to try dr earth dry fertilizer in my next grow I am just wanting to talk it out with those of you that know more about this than I do. I have read that many people are wanting to try dry amendments in coco then it would likely be helpful to them if there is a way to make that work on there.

Others handled the primary. I personally do something others say not to and one day i may adapt... I add about 20% soil with my coco pearlite mix. I blend it in the middle layer. It allows a little organics in the mix. I was topdressing light bird guano for a p boost on my last megacrop grow. It worked well. Though im sure that there is a better, less rootroot risky way to achieve the same goal.

Take in and listen to the "elders" on here. As i continually adapt my methods to my lifestyle, i try to take note of the gems from these folks. Even if i dont do it right away, i keep it in mind to try when my way fails.

If youre really wanting coco, i agree to go with megacrop or a line. If youre wanting PURELY organic, do soil with the dry stuff. Ive had success both ways and mixing. But my highest yield was that 20% soil mixed blend. And this one now with a full line is looking to do about the same.

 

[LeGeneGibberellin]

I just started a 1 gallon auto mazar freebie in coco/perlite with added vermicompost and biobizz pre-mix which is a 3-3-4 organic compost based fertilizer. As others said I do have my doubts but need to try it myself. I guess if manage to start life in coco it could work pretty decent even though starting in a peat base light mix is way easier if you want to grow organic with dry amendments or something like biotabs.

I have used mega crop in coco with good results but am not a huge fan of feeding schedules even though mega crop is piss easy to manage. Usually I use 50% Light Mix, 40% Perlite, 10% Worm Castings, TNC MycorrMax and Biotabs Guerilla Tabs as instructed. Fedding ph'ed tap water through blumat drippers. In flower I apply bat guano dissolved in water as single top watering once or twice. You just need a few grams per gallon of water. Be carefull with that "shit".

It wont give you the same dry mass as other fertilizers and/or mediums but it just works great with very low effort. No feeding schedule, no nutrient mixing, no clogging in my res (damn you mega crop sludge) and the quality of the bud is better then everything I grew with other products.

Average dry yield on my recent Mephisto grows in 2 gallon containers was about 2.5 oz which is plenty for me but I am really eager to try to replace the peat based light mix in my recipe with coco just for shits and giggles.