Indoor Using FFOF with AF Seedlings (and NOT transplanting)

[ketchieshoobie]

Hello all, this is my first post but I have been reading posts here for some time.

My question is this: How can you use OF soil with an autoflower and *not* transplant?

Background: I just completed my first two PC case grows in OF (Blue Mystic and Pineapple Express). There were many mishaps along the way but both turned out well, especially the PE. They were both started in a party cup with 65%/35% OF/Vermiculite. They both grew quickly from seed to 10 days and were eventually planted (bottom cut off the party cups and about an inch of the cups planted in a 2/3 gallon container) in a larger container. I then read here as well as other sites that AFs don't like transplants so when I was ready to pop another seed I planted it directly in the 2/3 gallon container with 60%/40% OF/Vermiculite. After 5 days with nothing above the soil I dug the seed out. It had popped open but the taproot never grew out. I then used the paper towel method and, once I had a taproot visible, planted it gently in similar soil. After 5 days it had just reached soil level but the leaves had not opened and it looked reddish brown.The first failed seed was a 60 Day Wonder and the second was a Little Cheese (very excited to try this one).

So, was it a difference in strains or the different sized containers or the OF soil varying as I go through the bag or ???

If it is the difference in strains I would conclude that OF is too hot for some strains and not others for germination.

Opinions welcome,
KS

 

[AndyBotwin]

Welcome to AFN! For my latest grow I germed 4 different strains in a 3/4 OF, 1/4 perlite mix. Two of them loved it and are thriving, and two of them didn't grow. I tried again with new seeds, and had the same failure (tap root eventually shriveled up before the plant broke the surface). I finally planted them in party cup with Light Warrior and they're doing fine. They'll be tiered into the OF mix soon. Basically you just grow it in a cup for a week or two until it can take the hotter soil, then you cut the bottom off the cup and place it in your larger pot. The roots don't get disturbed this way and there's very little chance of stunting the plant. It also allows you to grow a larger plant in a smaller pot since autos like to drop a long tap root.

My experiences seem to mirror those of many growers. The OF soil can and will burn up seedlings, but it's hard to know when it will happen. It could have something to do with the strain, but I think it's more related to the vitality of the seed itself. Others have grown Auto Assassin straight into OF without issue, but I couldn't make it happen with the batch of seeds that I had. The bottom line is that if you're going to put seeds in OF, you are taking a larger risk than usual that they won't make it. An alternative that many here have found is Happy Frog soil, which has nutes but isn't as hot and likely to burn young plants.

 

[grindin]

i did a 50/50 mix of OF and Happy Frog and just sprouted a Roadrunner and a Himalaya Blue Diesel strait in 2gal grow bags with no problems..

 

[ketchieshoobie]

Thanks guys.

Andy, the tiered approach is what I used for the two successful seedlings. But growing in a PC case it is hard to give up that extra 5" to keep the cup and handling it is kind of awkward. I failed to mention that I did successfully germ an Easy Ryder directly in OF which is thriving now at almost 4 weeks. You could be right about the seeds although it seems to follow the strain.

What I would really like would be a peat pellet type of approach where you plant in a cube of something with few nutes and then plant the cube in OF after 7-10 days. I don't like the Sure-to-Grow cubes (more like a quilt than a cube) and I don't like the rockwool cubes for soil. I don't see any peat cubes or similar at my hydro stores online and as I recall they were quite acidic being made from peat.

Any other ideas or comments?

Thanks,
KS

 

[AndyBotwin]

Thanks guys.

Andy, the tiered approach is what I used for the two successful seedlings. But growing in a PC case it is hard to give up that extra 5" to keep the cup and handling it is kind of awkward. I failed to mention that I did successfully germ an Easy Ryder directly in OF which is thriving now at almost 4 weeks. You could be right about the seeds although it seems to follow the strain.

What I would really like would be a peat pellet type of approach where you plant in a cube of something with few nutes and then plant the cube in OF after 7-10 days. I don't like the Sure-to-Grow cubes (more like a quilt than a cube) and I don't like the rockwool cubes for soil. I don't see any peat cubes or similar at my hydro stores online and as I recall they were quite acidic being made from peat.

Any other ideas or comments?

Thanks,
KS

I've seen some growers do a hybrid of the tiered approach where they dig out a cup sized area in the hot soil and then fill it with seedling mix. It gives you a safe place to get the seed going, but within a week the roots are spreading out and reaching the nutrients. I thought of trying this myself but ended up going with the cups.

 

[ketchieshoobie]

I've seen that idea in a few threads. It seems novel but it also seems once you wet it all down initially that the hot organic matter in the OF would soak into the seedling mix soil. I may be over-thinking it too.

Thanks for bringing that up, it might be worth a try.

 

[Auto-snooch]

hey ketchie could you please explain what problems you have had using rockwool? i only ask because i was going to try that for my next grow.

i have always planted straight into soil and i have only had problems once. i was thinking of trying the rockwool as a little neutral space for the seeds to germinate before they hit the soil. cube is approx 1.5" tall. the other thing i was considering was to try the tiered system but use a smaller party cup.

maybe i should just try both