Stitch's Red Libanon?

[Archaic]

So, one of my little pet projects is to turn one of my favorite photo period plants into an autoflowering version. The fun part is picking the source of the autoflowering genes. In this case I want to turn 'Hash Passion' into an auto. I'd like to try and use an auto that is as close to the source material as I can.

Hash Passion is based on the Moroccan Rif mountain hash plants and has a really dry frost without much odor. I've never tried Lebanese hash, but I'm hoping that it would be similar to the rest of the north African hash indicas - heat resistant, low odor, hashy.

If Stitches Red Libanon is truly based off of a Lebanese hash and is a stable auto, it might be what I'm looking for. Does anybody have any experience with it?

 

[Kya Knight]

I'm trying out the reg seeds. Left one hasn't autoed yet; I am hoping for a female because its going to show late hopefully. Middle one is a male, he's automatic. Right is going auto and female. I have one more male that is flowering faster. This is the first successful flash pack for me.

 

[Archaic]

Thats good to see. Yeah the males definitely like to show themselves young.

 

[AutoWonders]

So, one of my little pet projects is to turn one of my favorite photo period plants into an autoflowering version

In general, how much time does that process take?

 

[Archaic]

In general, how much time does that process take?

If you had room indoors and went 12/12 as soon as they showed sex you could probably do it in 2 years. I have to work outdoors so it would probably take more like 3-4 years.

• Grow out photo-period plants and cross with your selected autoflowering parent harvest F1 generation seeds
• Plant F1 seeds and select for autoflowering trait and breed them BUT -
• Autoflowering may not present in the F1 generation, you may need to cross F1s and select F2s for auto flowering
• Once you have a reliable autoflowering cross, you now need to back cross (BX) back into original photo strain and start process over again to achieve an auto that is 75% true to the Photo
• Rinse and repeat BX to achieve an 87% BX.
• If your original Autoflower strain was close enough to your Photo strain, you could stop here with good results
• Or you can BX and reselect for autoflowering one more time and purify your new strain to 94% of the original Photoperiod genetics.
• Throughout each step you will need to evaluate Phenotypes for similarity to the desired Photo
• At any point you may need to inbreed an extra generation to secure stability of desired traits
• Working with Photo's slows things down BUT you can use a mother/father plant for clones and cut out a fair bit of time

This sort of reveals the silliness of the argument made by old school opponents to autoflowers based on the misinformed belief that you are diluting 'good' genetics with ruderalis and weakening the effects. Assuming that Stitch spent at least 5 generations back crossing from his original lowryder to the stabilized Red Libanon, his seeds would be no more than 1.56% ruderalis. If I further dilute it by another 5 generations the only thing left of the ruderalis is the autoflowering trait. Sure the old Ryder strains were pretty diluted, but at this point that dilution has been BX out completely in most strains and guys like Subcool just sound old and tired.

It does give you an appreciation when you hear @mephisto and others talking about a strain being 3+ years in development, they ain't lying. This is why IF I do it I'd like to find parent auto's as close in heritage to my original Photo strain as possible so I can theoretically eliminate some BX generations.

 

[AutoWonders]

If you had room indoors and went 12/12 as soon as they showed sex you could probably do it in 2 years. I have to work outdoors so it would probably take more like 3-4 years.

• Grow out photo-period plants and cross with your selected autoflowering parent harvest F1 generation seeds
• Plant F1 seeds and select for autoflowering trait and breed them BUT -
• Autoflowering may not present in the F1 generation, you may need to cross F1s and select F2s for auto flowering
• Once you have a reliable autoflowering cross, you now need to back cross (BX) back into original photo strain and start process over again to achieve an auto that is 75% true to the Photo
• Rinse and repeat BX to achieve an 87% BX.
• If your original Autoflower strain was close enough to your Photo strain, you could stop here with good results
• Or you can BX and reselect for autoflowering one more time and purify your new strain to 94% of the original Photoperiod genetics.
• Throughout each step you will need to evaluate Phenotypes for similarity to the desired Photo
• At any point you may need to inbreed an extra generation to secure stability of desired traits
• Working with Photo's slows things down BUT you can use a mother/father plant for clones and cut out a fair bit of time

This sort of reveals the silliness of the argument made by old school opponents to autoflowers based on the misinformed belief that you are diluting 'good' genetics with ruderalis and weakening the effects. Assuming that Stitch spent at least 5 generations back crossing from his original lowryder to the stabilized Red Libanon, his seeds would be no more than 1.56% ruderalis. If I further dilute it by another 5 generations the only thing left of the ruderalis is the autoflowering trait. Sure the old Ryder strains were pretty diluted, but at this point that dilution has been BX out completely in most strains and guys like Subcool just sound old and tired.

It does give you an appreciation when you hear @mephisto and others talking about a strain being 3+ years in development, they ain't lying. This is why IF I do it I'd like to find parent auto's as close in heritage to my original Photo strain as possible so I can theoretically eliminate some BX generations.

That is quite a detailed answer. Thank you.

 

[Kya Knight]

I would advise you to make sure the strain you are crossing to auto gets crossed to a 100% auto flowering stock or your percentages will be lower and it will take more generations to stabilize as an auto. I've gotten photo period plants out of a few different auto strains. I cross more stable autos with the successfully auto flowering siblings to help move towards fully auto. I have a fast shot adrenaline making seeds with my fastest red libanon right now; I think it's going to be an improvement. The plants I used were also more sativa looking than the other few I had. I'm mentioning this because one if my red Libby's is not going auto. I'm also thinking you should check out the snowryder x ducks foot project someone has going on her. He's got low percentages of autos, and I'm guessing it's because he bred an auto that isn't 100% automatic to a photoperiod strain under the guise that it was a stable auto flowering strain. Literally none of the 5 snowryder seeds I grew autoed for me. He had a few and they were all autos but it's luck and probably a misrepresentation the truth of the matter from his perspective.

 

[Archaic]

Yeah he has some interesting looking strains, but I'm always a little wary of his business. I've spoken with Stitch on other forums and he's a good dude who is really into Autos. He just does not have a lot of business savvy or an understanding of quality control. I will say that all of the short-stuff seeds I have bought since he left have performed pretty well - but thats the difference a few extra generations will usually make.

 

[Kya Knight]

Raggedy Anne here is a female I'm waiting to see if it's auto.

 

[Kya Knight]

I'm skeptical. It seems to have just finished stretching.