Sick plant, what else can I try?

[Willistoned]

Problem:
This started about two weeks ago. The fan leaves on the top of the main cola began showing some dark mottling/spots and it has progressed all over the plant. It's only affecting areas in the light, but is now affecting the lower fan leaves too.

Medium/grow method:
Soil (compost/peat mix - https://www.vermontcompost.com/products/fort-light-compost-based-potting-soil/) with maybe 10-20% perlite mixed in.

3 gallon fabric pot

Feed: and supplements used:

I give the plant 1.25 gallons every three days. This gives me one or two pints of runoff. My feeding schedule lately has been alternating between one watering of water + Botainicare CalMag + Cannazym and then the next watering of water + CalMag + nutrients.

Here's what I've watered over the last few weeks with notes about why I did what I did:

• 3/18
  • 1.25 gallons RO water
  • 6ml Cal-mag+
  • 5ml Big Bloom
  • 3.5ml Tiger Bloom
  • < ⅛ tsp Beastie Bloom
  • 6.5 pH in, 6.5 pH run off
  • 350 ppm in, 2900 ppm run off
• 3/21
  • 1.25 gallons RO water
  • 5ml Cal-mag+
  • 10ml Cannazym
  • 6.4 pH in, 5.9 pH run off
  • 226 ppm in, 3100 ppm run off

Everything looked great up to this point. Other than some curled tips it had from high N in early veg, the plant didn't have a single thing visibly wrong with it. However, by the time I did my next watering on 3/24, the plant was showing some very early signs of something going on. I wasn't super concerned at this point, so I continued with my schedule doing about 1/4 strength according to the Fox Farms soil feeding schedule.

• 3/24
  • 1.25 gallons RO water
  • 6ml Cal-mag+
  • 4.5ml Big Bloom
  • 3.5ml Tiger Bloom
  • < ⅛ tsp Beastie Bloom
  • 6.6 pH in, 6.2 pH out
  • 377 ppm in, 2210 ppm out

Things were going down hill pretty quickly at this point and the mottling was moving from the upper fan leaves to the middle fan leaves. I decided to add some Sledgehammer thinking it was a nutrient lockout, despite not feeding very much.

• 3/27 (I did two waterings with 1.25 gallons each to try and flush the soil)
  • Both waterings consisted of
    • 1.25 gallons Tap water
    • 4ml Cal-mag+
    • 12ml Sledgehammer
    • 10ml Cannazym
  • 6.5 pH in, 6.2 pH run off
  • 300 ppm in, 1000 run off

Things kept getting worse so I decided to do another run with the Sledgehammer thinking whatever was going on in the soil was still not addressed.

• 3/30 (I did two waterings with 1.25 gallons each to try and flush the soil)
  • First 1.25 gallons Tap water
    • 3ml Cal-mag+
    • 12ml Sledgehammer (1st gal)
    • 6.9 pH in, 6.6 pH run off
    • 240 ppm in, 1100 ppm run off
  • Second 1.25 gallons Tap water
    • 4ml Cal-mag+
    • 4ml Big Bloom
    • 2ml Tiger Blom
    • 6.7 pH in, 6.5 pH out
    • 370 ppm in, 600 ppm run off

This was two days ago and things have gotten worse since last watering.

water source:
I started the grow with RO water and CalMag+ but recently switched to tap water. My tap water is great and comes out at about 110 ppm. I was only using RO to have more control, but I was frustrated trying to pH it, so I switched to tap water a week ago.

Strain/age:
Mephisto 4 Assed Monkey, 64 days from seed, 40 days from first pistils

light used:
I have three lights in my 2'x4' tent. An autocob from Cobshop, a 150 HPS, and a Viparspectra DS350 (135W draw). The LEDs are about 20" from the top of the plant and the HPS is about 12". I've got two plants in the tent that I rotate around so they get light from each one. Light schedule is 20/4.

Climate:
35-40% humidity, 74-79℉ lights on, 60℉ lights off.

Additional info:

I've got another 4AM sitting next to this one in the same tent that has been getting the exact same feeding and watering schedule. It had some early Ca issues but nothing like this.

 

[namvet25]

Could be to much light.Either raise the hps up to 24 inches or stop using it.Also cut light down to 18/6.I would flush her with plain ph water than just give her cal/mag at 8ml per gal and hold back on nutes for awhile.

 

[Willistoned]

Could be to much light.Either raise the hps up to 24 inches or stop using it.Also cut light down to 18/6.I would flush her with plain ph water than just give her cal/mag at 8ml per gal and hold back on nutes for awhile.

Thank you for the suggestions. I raised up all the lights and turned down the Vipar since it's dimmable. I will bump up the cal-mag next watering too.

Another thing I'm wondering is if I've been drowning the roots and it's showing up a deficiency rather than drooping. Is that possible? I always thought they'd look droopy if the roots were drowning, but I've read that overwatering can cause nutrient lockout issues too. The fabric pots take a lot of water without runoff (almost half the pot size) so I've been giving them what feels like a ton of water every three days. Before I water, the pots feel light, but the top of the soil is still damp if I dig down a quarter inch or so.

 

[Archaic]

Looks a little like a micronute deficiency, maybe copper or manganese. What color are your stems?

At this stage of the grow, your probably going to have to just ride it out and harvest what you can. It's pretty tough to correct anything that happens this late.

You very well could have too much light, manganese and copper issues actually make light burn worse.

 

[Willistoned]

Looks a little like a micronute deficiency, maybe copper or manganese. What color are your stems?

At this stage of the grow, your probably going to have to just ride it out and harvest what you can. It's pretty tough to correct anything that happens this late.

You very well could have too much light, manganese and copper issues actually make light burn worse.

The stems are sort of a deep-red/purple. I figured I won't be able to fix it, but just want to do what I can to at least slow it down and let it ride out the next 3-4 weeks as happy as can be.

 

[Waira]

- mate, you did most everything right, well done,...last run has ppms and pH in good range,.... The suspected problem is the Ca inputs, plus what the water has (nice water though BTW),... Too much Ca won't show as a toxicity like other nutes, unless it's off the charts,... but the overload of it, and the other ions were locking things out, or more rightly, a sort of competitive uptake issue with other cations.... I think this is mainly a Mn issue, but this advanced, more than one thing is likely involved... P defc,...
-- that initial run-off ppm was insane,I'm shocked you didn't have burning symptoms!
--- HPS might be too close, back that up some,.. proximity heat and intensity can magnify problems, and cause the VPD to be off locally, if you will,... (vapor pressure deficit-- good article in Reference section about this, a must read IMO!)
>> skip the Ca-Mg for now, the nutes have some anyway, plus the water,...
>> all this flushing, I worry about the roots being damaged, which will make fixing things tougher,... no more of that needed now thankfully! fingers crossed they are OK,.. any drooping happening?
>> Big Bloom is good stuff, but very weak as a true nutrient for NPK, all in decimal range,... use that at full strength; a root tonic would be good too, and inoculants,...
>>> what to do,... a micronutrient supplement is in order now, I like Earth Juice microblast for it's broad coverage, and much of it sulfate based so S gets covered too! Stay on the bloom too man, right now P, K, S, Mn are key for good bud development and terpene production,....

OK, how to show this,... recently a staff friend posted this great graphic, we dubbed the Wheel of Confusion! .... grind on it some, and it gets clearer...

Look at Ca here: green lines are antagonism, arrow pointing to the specific nute element uptake that's getting interfered with,....think "locks out" in this regard,... Too much Ca++ present, and it screws with Mn availability, P availability, others too.... This is what I think has happened,... Too bad you're in bloom, a foliar treatment would speed things in there much faster,... you still can, if you're careful, and aim precisely to avoid soaking the bud as much as possible,...

 

[Willistoned]

- mate, you did most everything right, well done,...last run has ppms and pH in good range,.... The suspected problem is the Ca inputs, plus what the water has (nice water though BTW),... Too much Ca won't show as a toxicity like other nutes, unless it's off the charts,... but the overload of it, and the other ions were locking things out, or more rightly, a sort of competitive uptake issue with other cations.... I think this is mainly a Mn issue, but this advanced, more than one thing is likely involved... P defc,...
-- that initial run-off ppm was insane,I'm shocked you didn't have burning symptoms!
--- HPS might be too close, back that up some,.. proximity heat and intensity can magnify problems, and cause the VPD to be off locally, if you will,... (vapor pressure deficit-- good article in Reference section about this, a must read IMO!)
>> skip the Ca-Mg for now, the nutes have some anyway, plus the water,...
>> all this flushing, I worry about the roots being damaged, which will make fixing things tougher,... no more of that needed now thankfully! fingers crossed they are OK,.. any drooping happening?
>> Big Bloom is good stuff, but very weak as a true nutrient for NPK, all in decimal range,... use that at full strength; a root tonic would be good too, and inoculants,...
>>> what to do,... a micronutrient supplement is in order now, I like Earth Juice microblast for it's broad coverage, and much of it sulfate based so S gets covered too! Stay on the bloom too man, right now P, K, S, Mn are key for good bud development and terpene production,....

OK, how to show this,... recently a staff friend posted this great graphic, we dubbed the Wheel of Confusion! .... grind on it some, and it gets clearer...

Look at Ca here: green lines are antagonism, arrow pointing to the specific nute element uptake that's getting interfered with,....think "locks out" in this regard,... Too much Ca++ present, and it screws with Mn availability, P availability, others too.... This is what I think has happened,... Too bad you're in bloom, a foliar treatment would speed things in there much faster,... you still can, if you're careful, and aim precisely to avoid soaking the bud as much as possible,...

Thanks for the input! The plants took the flushing like a champ. No drooping and the pots were light again in 4 days.

It doesn't look like the image you posted came through.

I watered again last night before seeing this and fed with 5ml/gal Cal-mag+ (2-0-0). I also added 8ml/gal of Cannazym (0-2-1). The Cannazym is supposed to help break down dead root material and help the intake of nutrients. Who knows... The pH in was 6.5 and run off was 6.5. It also measured 360 ppm in and < 1000 ppm out. For better or worse, it looks like the flush did its job. Next watering I'll bump up the Big Bloom and up the Tiger Bloom too. I also have some Cha Ching that's high in P that I could add.

I haven't seen any real bud development in about a week. The pistils are turning amber on the lower buds, but overall it's not really fattening up. It's only my second grow so I'll chalk it up to a learning experience. My other plant is doing well so I'll at least have one good harvest. I've been looking for an excuse to make edibles so I'll just let the sick plant ride go as long as it can and hope for the best.

Thanks!

 

[Waira]

........... Odd, I see it,... I'll try again; if it's not showing, it's in the Defc. Pic Depot that located in the colored section above this one,....
--- that run-off ppm is still too high,...plus what you add right back in again and likely is still going to block some uptake,......pH is good! Enzymes will not help with the lockout or competitive uptake issue relating to the high ppm load in the pot,....
Poor bud ripening is due to the Mn and P lockout,.... the girls has a ways to go still too, so making corrections is still worth it!

 

[Willistoned]

........... Odd, I see it,... I'll try again; if it's not showing, it's in the Defc. Pic Depot that located in the colored section above this one,....
--- that run-off ppm is still too high,...plus what you add right back in again and likely is still going to block some uptake,......pH is good! Enzymes will not help with the lockout or competitive uptake issue relating to the high ppm load in the pot,....
Poor bud ripening is due to the Mn and P lockout,.... the girls has a ways to go still too, so making corrections is still worth it!

What would be a good target PPM for runoff? I'm assuming the soil affects this number a bit so it's not totally in my control.

 

[Waira]

generally, a few hundred or so, depends a great deal on the soil's compositions, richness,... Things are not as simple in soil for this compared to basic mediums, soilless ... peat based, coco,....all very few amendments, if any....