Lighting Red 670nm and Far Red 730nm Flower Initiator Build.

[Adam & Cola]

Hey AFN, i'm going to start making a DIY Flower initiator. I'm waiting for supplies to show up in the mail. So I figure its a good time to ask for some advice.

this will go in a 5x5 tent, I currently have 170watt DIY COB and a Mars II 400 pulling 175 watts. so 340 combined watts. I was thinking of using about 5-10% of my total wattage for the flower initiator. Is this a safe starting point? so somewhere in the range of 20-35 watts of Flower Initiator power. Depending on what people suggest here.

I'll be receiving
12 Deep Red 670nm Leds SPECS: - Forward Voltage is 2.00V @ 350ma, 2.20V @700ma
12 Far Red 730nm Leds PECS: Forward Voltage is 2.35V @ 350ma, 2.6 @ 700ma

I couldn't decide on which driver to get so I got both of these Mean Wells, again with input from you guys i'll make my decision.
LDH-45B-700W W/Dimming output 21~64VDC max 44.8 Watts (24v power supply I Have).
APC-25-700 output 11~36VDC max 25 Watts

What ratio should I use for the Initiator array. 2-1, 3-1 or 1-1 of 670 to 730.. I think I bought enough for two grow tents.. lol, well they were cheap.. might as well buy enough for a second tent if needed.

They will be attached to two 36" 1/8" aluminum flat stock.

I've read that combining the two wavelengths is better than just the 730nm alone for initiating flower. Not entirely sure about this. But this is my experiment so i'm going to try it. If it works then, sahweeet. if not i'll just use the 730nm the next round.

Ok, so here we go. Any input is greatly appreciated as long as it is positive. Please refrain from starting some bitch cat fight in this journal. I have no patience for it. Save that for some other journal or forum. I'll ask for you to be booted from posting in this journal if you do. I Want this to be informative for others, I don't want to see 10 pages of 3-4 people bitchin back and forth while people are trying to learn. thanks

 

[Rosco1012]

Subbed to watch this develop! I've been researching deep and far reds, the Emerson effect and related.
What kind of LEDs did you get? I'm also curious how you plant to time this light, will it be on a standard light timer set for a short period or do you have plans to install a regulator of sorts on the fixture?

 

[Adam & Cola]

Hey Rosco, these are the LED's i purchased. I got them from Steve Led's.

8794102596 SemiLeds Far Red 3W - Brand NEW!

8794102435 Philips Luxeon ES Deep Red 3 Watt LEDs - RARE Version!


I plan on just using a regular digital timer to come on at lights out for 10 minutes.

 

[wwwillie]

Hey Now!!
Any movement on this??
I am embarking on the same journey and was wondering how you made out.
Peace

 

[L0wbob2017]

Nice to see somebody experimenting around with monos

I also did some personal research with mono color LED's ( may take a look in my signature [DIY clickbait]).
I will read this carefully and then write a long answer to this

 

[L0wbob2017]

Hey AFN, i'm going to start making a DIY Flower initiator. I'm waiting for supplies to show up in the mail. So I figure its a good time to ask for some advice.

this will go in a 5x5 tent, I currently have 170watt DIY COB and a Mars II 400 pulling 175 watts. so 340 combined watts. I was thinking of using about 5-10% of my total wattage for the flower initiator. Is this a safe starting point? so somewhere in the range of 20-35 watts of Flower Initiator power. Depending on what people suggest here.

I dont think you should not decide on your powerdraw from the wall what wattage you go for your flower initiator. You have to think a different way.
You want to initiate it in every plant, if possible on every squareinch the light could reach on your plants.

So the final wattage is a result of the planning you need to do. Find out how to cover every inch that your normal lights hits, with your flower initiator.

Your result will be a specific number of needed LED's and from that point you can calculate the theoretical powerdraw.

I'll be receiving
12 Deep Red 670nm Leds SPECS: - Forward Voltage is 2.00V @ 350ma, 2.20V @700ma
12 Far Red 730nm Leds PECS: Forward Voltage is 2.35V @ 350ma, 2.6 @ 700ma

Something i have to mention is always the working temp of your LED's.
There are always some rules with LED's.
Blues are more efficient than reds.
The cooler a LED the more efficient it is in terms of how much input-energy gets transformed into usable light. This means the cooler a LED the more light you get from the same amount of input-energy.

Thats the reason why in every datasheet the relative luminous output is not proportional to the working temp. ( it decreases with rising temp )

So long story short end: You wont hit that "light output values" that were given in the datasheet as long as your working temps are not their testing temp which is 25°C.
So i hope you didnt calculate with that. In the end your LED's will get slightly "darker" the longer they run because of the heat.

I couldn't decide on which driver to get so I got both of these Mean Wells, again with input from you guys i'll make my decision.
LDH-45B-700W W/Dimming output 21~64VDC max 44.8 Watts (24v power supply I Have).
APC-25-700 output 11~36VDC max 25 Watts

Something my father and electrical mentor told me, try to use as less as possible parts transforming electrical power. He told me that because at first i also wanted to use a DC/DC solution.

A better way for a dimming solution is dimming via "PWM". Maybe you take a google search for this. I ended up taking a meanwell driver that can put out more energy than needed.
The clue is using PWM-dimmer that control the brightness in 256 steps and limiting the max power to the LED's with a cooled resistor. ( so you wont burn your LED's with too much power )

Another nice thing with PWM is, if you cool your LED's very good you can use them with more power.
For example: ( i assume very good cooling and using PWM )
a red LED with max values of 2,2V @ 700mA could be run with 2,4V @ ~ 850mA. ( i dont know the values for sure, i just want to make clear what you could do with PWM )

What ratio should I use for the Initiator array. 2-1, 3-1 or 1-1 of 670 to 730.. I think I bought enough for two grow tents.. lol, well they were cheap.. might as well buy enough for a second tent if needed.

They will be attached to two 36" 1/8" aluminum flat stock.

So here we go for some numbers. I read at the start that your space is a 5x5 tent. that aluminium bar is about 3 foot long.
Depending on the way you use the LED's ( with lenses or without ) and the height you want to set up these bars there are differences in the results.
( i think it will be the same height as your normals lights so you dont end up with shadows of your flower-initiator-bars ).

So depending on all of this i hope the coverage will be good enough. If you use 90 degree lenses you end up with a coverage circle that has the same radius as the hight you choose from the LED's to your plants.
For example: distance from LED's to plants is 2 feet, you end up with a coverage circle that has a radius of 2 feet.

If you dont use any lenses at all most LED's radiate between 110 and 120 degrees. This means u end up with a much bigger coverage circle but the intensity variates very much from the center to the outer line with this solution.
So i would say, get some lenses to focus the light for a more even light distribution.

Now i will come the the ratio. Since 730nm is infrared, and infrared is mostly heat radiation i would assume you try to use less 730nm if you got temp problems in your room
( depending on where u are and what temps u get over the 4 different seasons ).
Too much 730nm will heat up the plants too. They could use more water because of their transpiration.

670nm Is the peak wavelength of chlorophyll a. At this wavelength you can see a peek of photosynthesis for chlorophyll a.

So for 1 initiator-bar i would use a ratio of 3-1 or 2-1, 670nm to 730nm. Take care, red LED's get warmer than blues.

I've read that combining the two wavelengths is better than just the 730nm alone for initiating flower. Not entirely sure about this. But this is my experiment so i'm going to try it. If it works then, sahweeet. if not i'll just use the 730nm the next round.

This comes because LED's produce a lightoutput with a narrow wavelength distribution.
This means if you got a LED with for example 600nm peak than the actual output of that LED will be ~ 580 - 620nm.
It still got its peak at 600nm but since it is a turned around parabola the LED will also radiate some low altitude wavelengths from 580 - 600nm and from 600 - 620nm.

If you combine now 2 LED's with close to each other wavelengths, in that case 670nm and 730nm you end up with wavelengths from ~ 650nm - 690nm and 710nm - 750nm.

[ 670nm would be about 650nm to 690nm | 730nm would be about 710nm to 750nm ]

So the chlorophyll absorbs more different wavelengths than just 2 specific. This also means that every wavelength these 2 LED's radiate can be used by the plant.

Ok, so here we go. Any input is greatly appreciated as long as it is positive. Please refrain from starting some bitch cat fight in this journal. I have no patience for it. Save that for some other journal or forum. I'll ask for you to be booted from posting in this journal if you do. I Want this to be informative for others, I don't want to see 10 pages of 3-4 people bitchin back and forth while people are trying to learn. thanks

There will always be some of these posts but just ignore them

 

[Adam & Cola]

Just wanted to chime in and say that the flower initiator works. After 2 weeks of 12 on 12 off I switch to 13 on 11 off. Then the last week of flower back to 12 x 12. Fantastic results. This with COBS is a great recipe.

 

[L0wbob2017]

I just read that 660nm is a sign for "waking the plants up" and 740nm is a sign for "setting the plants to sleep"