plants from older seeds...

[Humanrob]

I've noticed a conversation pattern, it often starts with people discussing how many seeds they have, which leads to how many plants they grow in a year, and then how many years worth of seeds they have. The conversation often then moves to, "how long are seeds viable for?" (and discussion of storage techniques), which one or two people will often interject, "I just popped a "XX" year old seed!" implying they can last for a long time. I've read subsequent discussions about how germination rates diminish as seeds get older, but I don't recall any discussion about the health or robustness of plants grown from older seeds.

My problem is that I'm trying to use up the older ones first, and I'm finding that some of my old seeds seem to be sprouting into weaker plants that have more issues. My oldest (auto) seeds at this point are about 5 years old. They've been kept in the fridge, and up to 3 years old I've had nearly 100% germination. It's the 4 to 5 year old seeds that seem to be about 70% germination, and about 50% of those that germinate either end out stunted, or showing some kind of leaf issue early on that they never really outgrow.

I only grow about a dozen plants per year, so I don't have a lot of data to base this on, so that's why I'm asking. Is this a common experience?

 

[Ryno_nuggs]

This is an interesting idea, as like you mentioned, I'm pretty sure a lot of us have a lifetime supply.

My big thing, with hoarding genetics, is that I can reproduce whatever I have, as long as they will grow. Anything that is getting to 5ish years old for me, and I'm considering reversing one and pollinating another, to keep the genetics going and have fresh seeds. That is of coarse, if it is something I want to keep.

Now do I enough room to breed and keep all of my genetics, hell no.

 

[Humanrob]

This is an interesting idea, as like you mentioned, I'm pretty sure a lot of us have a lifetime supply.

My big thing, with hoarding genetics, is that I can reproduce whatever I have, as long as they will grow. Anything that is getting to 5ish years old for me, and I'm considering reversing one and pollinating another, to keep the genetics going and have fresh seeds. That is of coarse, if it is something I want to keep.

Now do I enough room to breed and keep all of my genetics, hell no.

And that's to my point -- do the genetics begin to degrade over time? If you're going to breed something, is it better to do from a 2 year old seed than say a 6 year old seed? Or does it matter?

When I realized I had a 10 year supply and I wasn't sure if I could keep them viable that long, I stopped buying more. There are very few breeders who could come out with something that would cause me to get out the credit card at this point, because I'm probably already going to be having seeds time-out on me, so every new seed I'd buy would bump another old one off the queue.

 

[Ryno_nuggs]

Well I can not say with any certainty, but I don't think it matters to a point. After awhile the seeds will naturally become harder to Crack for sure. But if they sprout i think the genetics will prevail.

 

[AJrexxx]

I have been working on this as my horde is out of control I just popped some seeds that were about four years old. I have a germination rate of about 75% so far. I dropped four Fastbuds LSD 25 (about four years old) all four popped. I dropped four Mephisto Heisenberg's (closer to 5) 2 popped one I culled because it was not growing. My goal with this project was to run in 2 gallons five at a time to just get through the backlog so they eventually did not just die out. A little plant is better than no plant.

I do know super cold storage long term can work but I do not know the temperatures and applications to cannabis specifically but there are genetic seed vaults that hold plant genetics(other than cannabis for preservation) for ridiculous lengths of time. I have a feeling though it is cost prohibitive or more complicated than just throwing them in your deep freeze.

The Heisenberg is the tall girl on the left the others are LSD25(right at about a month). They seem pretty uniform at this point. I am going to continue to document as 8 seeds doesn't show a trend but after 5-10 more runs there might be a recognizable trend.

I am thinking I might just start running in solo cups to get more ran if the horde ages out enough.

 

[Humanrob]

I have been working on this as my horde is out of control I just popped some seeds that were about four years old. I have a germination rate of about 75% so far. I dropped four Fastbuds LSD 25 (about four years old) all four popped. I dropped four Mephisto Heisenberg's (closer to 5) 2 popped one I culled because it was not growing. My goal with this project was to run in 2 gallons five at a time to just get through the backlog so they eventually did not just die out. A little plant is better than no plant.

I do know super cold storage long term can work but I do not know the temperatures and applications to cannabis specifically but there are genetic seed vaults that hold plant genetics(other than cannabis for preservation) for ridiculous lengths of time. I have a feeling though it is cost prohibitive or more complicated than just throwing them in your deep freeze.

The Heisenberg is the tall girl on the left the others are LSD25(right at about a month). They seem pretty uniform at this point. I am going to continue to document as 8 seeds doesn't show a trend but after 5-10 more runs there might be a recognizable trend.

View attachment 1401700

I am thinking I might just start running in solo cups to get more ran if the horde ages out enough.

I've contemplated running SOGs in 1 gallon pots to "use up" my old seeds, but recently found out that my state determined it's recreational cannabis policy to another level of detail, specifically, 8 or less plants is a misdemeanor, 9 or more is a felony... the odds of LE actually having reason to enter my house and look in my tent is incredibly small, but some risks I just won't take.

I only do one outdoor, and one or two indoor runs per year, so I'm at the point where I think I'm simply going to toss (or give away with full disclosure) my oldest seeds. I don't have room for weak plants, I need every space in the limited grows I do to have the highest probability of producing well. I think I'm going to anticipate seeds having a 3 year shelf life in my fridge, and buy accordingly with that in mind.

I hope you'll post about your findings with your grows!

 

[Humanrob]

On a somewhat related note, in terms of auto genetics I'm often surprised at how diverse these plants can be. Below is an example of the difference in thickness between the stems on primary fan leaves from two plants. The left is a Fast Buds Jack Herer, the right is the mutated/from an older seed Mephisto Sour Stomper.

The SS's leaves had crazy fat stems, but they were often absolutely covered in trichomes. I'm full up on tincture/butter (and private citizens making hash has become a felony here), so I'm just tossing the frosty fat stems. Anyway, lots of genetic diversity out there. I think I've seen stems that fat before, so I don't think it is specifically a sign of an old seed. The crinkled up leaves might be, or it might just be another issue I'm not aware of.

 

[AJrexxx]

I've contemplated running SOGs in 1 gallon pots to "use up" my old seeds, but recently found out that my state determined it's recreational cannabis policy to another level of detail, specifically, 8 or less plants is a misdemeanor, 9 or more is a felony... the odds of LE actually having reason to enter my house and look in my tent is incredibly small, but some risks I just won't take.

I only do one outdoor, and one or two indoor runs per year, so I'm at the point where I think I'm simply going to toss (or give away with full disclosure) my oldest seeds. I don't have room for weak plants, I need every space in the limited grows I do to have the highest probability of producing well. I think I'm going to anticipate seeds having a 3 year shelf life in my fridge, and buy accordingly with that in mind.

I hope you'll post about your findings with your grows!

Yeah I hear ya if I get some seeds that are okay just not my cup of tea I give them to new growers. They are happy its free and I feel good it did not go to waste.

Thank You