Indoor LED advice sought

[Chester]

Hey y'all ... I currently have 5 Nirvana Blue Mystic autos and 1 Northern Light photo in their 3rd week since germinating in 3 gal pots. I am currently using a total of 480 watts (40x12 bulbs) of CFL due to heat and space. This combo has done real well for me in the past but I changed out my reflector and seriously stunted the growth of these six plants. I take delivery of 2 Advanced LED lights next week. They both offer core covverage of about 2'x2' which works perfect for my 2 spaces. I tried to time this grow to be dry enough to put in glass jars by 9/14, a date that is now just 2 months off. At 3.5 weeks my tallest is about 4 inches but healthy. I'd like to make this CFL to LED transition as smoothly as possible. Could anyone 'shine some light' on the transition. I'd like to flower the Northern Light immediately but the autos should begin to flower on their own in about a week, unless stunting them slows them down ... do I need to make the transition a gradual thing or can I just remove one set of lights and replace w/ the other ... At present my plan is for the 5 Blue Mystics to be in one space w/ the DS100 and the NL to have a space of it's own under the other light. The light I'll be using on the autos has adjustable power and color spectrum ... should I help the autos to flower by using the flowering spectrum early ? I can't afford to stunt these any further and come anywhere near being done finishing on time. I'll post pics when I figure out how. Thanks in advance for any and all advice y'all care to share.


My new lights ...

Extreme Flower http://www.advancedledlights.com/products/NEW-%252d-120w-Extreme-Flower-LED-%252d-3w-USA-LEDs-%252d-11-Wavelengths.html

DS100 http://www.advancedledlights.com/3w...iamond-series-leds-extreme-3w-led-technology/

 

[Muddy]

Welcome to AFN. I wouldn't be too concerned about transitioning from one light to the other, just go ahead and make the switch when you get your new lights. I would keep the autos on the veg spectrum until they stop their vertical growth, usually around week 6. Take a look at this thread, it should give you a better idea of what to expect from your autos. https://www.autoflower.org/f44/life-cycle-auto-flowering-cannabis-5113.html.

Hate to say this but the price on that UFO is outrageous at $369. A 240 watt Black Star can be had for about $275. I also think that 100 watts won't be enough for 5 plants, more suited for 2. You might consider cancelling your order if you still can. We can recommend some better lights that are stronger and cost less.

 

[npd]

Hello Chester, I dont grow indoors very much, but when I do I use an Advanced Led Diamond series 200 watt and have had good luck with it. The light is 3 years old and I have not had any issues with it. Muddy is right about the prices though. They are expensive as you have found out, but they are also high quality. Wish you the best with your grow.

 

[Chester]

Thanks for the input guys ... I got the 120w gently used off of Fleabay for 1/2 price and I got a deal on the DS100 that was too good to pass up ... From what I've heard people who use them say they're worth the price ... All 6 of these plants are 3 weeks old and could easily fit in a Dixie cup. Perfect little minatures, bushy, green and healthy. The six 3 gal pots all fit inside of the core footprint of either light. Normally I would only have one or two under each light but, I think I'll be putting the 5 autos under the DS100 and the 1 NL under the other in two different spaces. I need to have the harvest dried, no matter how small it is by the end of Sept. I'll have a nearly unbroken period from Nov to April during which I plan to grow 2 autos under each light, I'd love to try Onyx if it's available in the states.
Thanks again for the input ...

NPD ... how high above the canopy do you hang your lights ... was the core coverage that Advanced LED listed accurate for your DS200 ?

 

[Muddy]

Glad to hear you didn't pay full price for those lights. $369 for a UFO is almost 3x what you can pick up a comparable one for.

It's not so much how many plants you can fit under the lights but more the amount of light each plant will get. LEDs are not driven at full power. If they were, their life span would be shortened and they wouldn't last the 50k hours they are usually rated for. I wouldn't be surprised if the 120 watt one is actually throwing out more than about 70 or 80 watts. That's really only enough for 2 plants. Yes, you can put 6 in it's core penetration area but just know that your buds are likely to be loose and airy from insufficient light. I think you'll see better results later on when you only run 2 under it.

 

[auto-p]

LEDs are not driven at full power. If they were, their life span would be shortened and they wouldn't last the 50k hours they are usually rated for. I wouldn't be surprised if the 120 watt one is actually throwing out more than about 70 or 80 watts. That's really only enough for 2 plants. Yes, you can put 6 in it's core penetration area but just know that your buds are likely to be loose and airy from insufficient light. I think you'll see better results later on when you only run 2 under it.

Hi Muddy,

Sorry, but I'm going to have to step in here.

Most LEDs are rated at 50k-100k hours at their full rated power.

If an LED manufacturer calls a fixture 240W, but it only draws, say 140W, they are being deceptive, and are breaking the law.

They may claim that 'we don't run them at full power to get the maximum lifetime' -- but at doesnt mean the LEDs are at fault.

All the reputable LED chip manufacturers rate their chips properly. There is not any reason why any fixture manufacturer would need to be deceptive about the ACTUAL fixture power.

 

[Mr Piggy]

If an LED manufacturer calls a fixture 240W, but it only draws, say 140W, they are being deceptive, and are breaking the law.

Sorry, but I have to step in on this. I want you to show me that law. If I understand correctly LEDs driven at full wattage would burn out right quick, so using 240w worth of diodes and calling it that is not a lie. The way I understand LEDs to work is they draw based on the quality of the current, and not based on wattage amount. If they had to legally stick to a number that would make it hard based on differences in power quality around the world. I have only a basic understanding of power and LEDs so this could be wrong. The legal issue however I don't agree with. Especially since I love my blackstar 240 that only draws around 140

 

[auto-p]

Sorry, but I have to step in on this. I want you to show me that law. If I understand correctly LEDs driven at full wattage would burn out right quick, so using 240w worth of diodes and calling it that is not a lie. The way I understand LEDs to work is they draw based on the quality of the current, and not based on wattage amount. If they had to legally stick to a number that would make it hard based on differences in power quality around the world. I have only a basic understanding of power and LEDs so this could be wrong. The legal issue however I don't agree with. Especially since I love my blackstar 240 that only draws around 140

You understand incorrectly.

Here is a link to an Osram lifetime estimate datasheet based on FULL WATTAGE output power. This is just one example, there are thousands of them.

http://catalog.osram-os.com/jsp/dow...0.pdf&url=/media//_en/Graphics/00066737_0.pdf


I know this subject -- I am an EE and I design LED lighting ballasts.

From the datasheet:
As can be seen from the charts, the LEDs in the OSLON SSL and OSLON Square groups – in combination with an adequate thermal management system and depending on the selected operating conditions –achieve typical lifetimes of up to 100,000 hours. This corresponds to continuous operation of about 11-and-a-half years.

So, if they are claiming that they can't run their LEDs at full power because of lifetime issues -- they are not being honest.

Deceptive advertising is illegal in the USA. It is the purvey of the FTC.

If I sell you a car, and I tell you that it has 500 horsepower, and you test it and it only has 250 horsepower, that is deceptive advertising, even if I use the excuse that it's "possible" to get 500 horsepower from the engine.

This is no different. Deceptive advertising is illegal.

 

[auto-p]

And the law is:

Section 5 of the FTC Act declares unfair or deceptive acts or practices unlawful. Section 12 specifically prohibits false ads likely to induce the purchase of food, drugs, devices or cosmetics.

 

[Muddy]

Let's not turn this into a discussion on legalities. After all, this is Chester's thread and as a new member I think we owe it to him to keep his thread on track.

Sorry, but I have to step in on this. I want you to show me that law. If I understand correctly LEDs driven at full wattage would burn out right quick, so using 240w worth of diodes and calling it that is not a lie. The way I understand LEDs to work is they draw based on the quality of the current, and not based on wattage amount. If they had to legally stick to a number that would make it hard based on differences in power quality around the world. I have only a basic understanding of power and LEDs so this could be wrong. The legal issue however I don't agree with. Especially since I love my blackstar 240 that only draws around 140