Late Flower deficiency.

[Elroyyboy]

Hey folks. Thanks for always providing good info. I’m not a new grower but I am to autos. This is my first real auto run. 72 days from seed. Ordered 5 G13 Labs Auto Berry but the plants look so different from one another I done think they’re different phenos from the Berry. Anyway.
OF/Happy Frog soil and perlite. Under HLG 320XL kit about 20” off canopy. Good VPD during light hours. 75 lights on 40% RH. Using mostly GH Micro and Bloom with some recharge. Some mammoth P and some, not much, Beastie Blooms and CaliMagic. Recently had to switch to Bushdoctor cal/mag based on what grow store had. 10 days later. This is happening. I looked at the difference between calcium concentrations between the two cal mags and bushdoctor is only 2% where the GH was 3%.
Fed with recharge and Beastie blooms and 1 tsp/gal of Epsom salts today. Hope it helps.
Any advice appreciated.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Hey folks. Thanks for always providing good info. I’m not a new grower but I am to autos. This is my first real auto run. 72 days from seed. Ordered 5 G13 Labs Auto Berry but the plants look so different from one another I done think they’re different phenos from the Berry. Anyway.
OF/Happy Frog soil and perlite. Under HLG 320XL kit about 20” off canopy. Good VPD during light hours. 75 lights on 40% RH. Using mostly GH Micro and Bloom with some recharge. Some mammoth P and some, not much, Beastie Blooms and CaliMagic. Recently had to switch to Bushdoctor cal/mag based on what grow store had. 10 days later. This is happening. I looked at the difference between calcium concentrations between the two cal mags and bushdoctor is only 2% where the GH was 3%.
Fed with recharge and Beastie blooms and 1 tsp/gal of Epsom salts today. Hope it helps.
Any advice appreciated. View attachment 1264427

@Elroyyboy Welcome to AFN
Looks like a case of full scale lock-out. My first guess is too much calcium. HF is an amended soil. That means they put minerals in it already. For the most part these minerals are broken down slowly by microbe action to make them available to the plant. Recharge is full of microbes and stuff to feed and encourage the microbes to produce more nutrients for the plant including calcium. Then you are dumping more calcium and bamm too much.

Then it sounds like you may be feeding a single element at a time. This is the definition of "Out of balance". When you fertigate with a single element it rinses the more balanced (at least supposed to be balanced) nutrients away from the roots and bamm now you have a magnesium lock-out.

Fertigation should always be with nutrients balanced in these weight to liter ratios:

The problem with pre-charged soils is how do you ever know what is still in the pot?

The safest way to utilize a precharged soil is by following the vendors chart with their product line only. When you start to mix and match it is like nutrient roulette. They spend millions of dollars developing a system that will work together. Take advantage of that. Use all of the products listed here. Do not pick and choose or mix with other lines. Bio-stimulants like Kelp, Humic acid, Mammoth P etc. from other vendors is ok.

Because most autoflowers are faster and smaller than their Photoperiod counterparts they need less nutrients for the given part of their life cycle. So when using a vendors schedule it is best to start at 50% strength and up it 10% a week until you get a little bit of tip burn. Then back-off 10%, this will have you feeding the plant at the level it likes.

From where you are now there are no good choices but it looks critical to me so flushing is most likely needed. Flushing soil fooks it up. The salts are easily rinsed out along with the microbes but the minerals will remain. This makes it hard to ever get the balance back in the pot in the life time of the plant remaining. A couple of choices = drastic 200% of the volume of the pot flush with PH 6.2 RO or distilled water then immediately follow with a light feed 50% strength of balance nutrients. Or a 50% of the pot volume flush with 50% strength balanced PH 6.3 nutrients 3 times now then over the next 2 times the pot needs watering. This is less likely to cause a hermie than the first method but the plants may not recover from the lock-out fast enough? Both methods are stressful to plants already under major stress.

It would be beneficial to apply a foliar application of Fulvic Acid 5 parts, Kelp 2 parts and a little B vitamins. Try to keep it off the buds and make sure to have pleanty of air movement so the plants are dry before lights out.

 

[Elroyyboy]

@Elroyyboy Welcome to AFN
Looks like a case of full scale lock-out. My first guess is too much calcium. HF is an amended soil. That means they put minerals in it already. For the most part these minerals are broken down slowly by microbe action to make them available to the plant. Recharge is full of microbes and stuff to feed and encourage the microbes to produce more nutrients for the plant including calcium. Then you are dumping more calcium and bamm too much.

Then it sounds like you may be feeding a single element at a time. This is the definition of "Out of balance". When you fertigate with a single element it rinses the more balanced (at least supposed to be balanced) nutrients away from the roots and bamm now you have a magnesium lock-out.

Fertigation should always be with nutrients balanced in these weight to liter ratios:

View attachment 1264451

The problem with pre-charged soils is how do you ever know what is still in the pot?

The safest way to utilize a precharged soil is by following the vendors chart with their product line only. When you start to mix and match it is like nutrient roulette. They spend millions of dollars developing a system that will work together. Take advantage of that. Use all of the products listed here. Do not pick and choose or mix with other lines. Bio-stimulants like Kelp, Humic acid, Mammoth P etc. from other vendors is ok.

View attachment 1264452
Because most autoflowers are faster and smaller than their Photoperiod counterparts they need less nutrients for the given part of their life cycle. So when using a vendors schedule it is best to start at 50% strength and up it 10% a week until you get a little bit of tip burn. Then back-off 10%, this will have you feeding the plant at the level it likes.

From where you are now there are no good choices but it looks critical to me so flushing is most likely needed. Flushing soil fooks it up. The salts are easily rinsed out along with the microbes but the minerals will remain. This makes it hard to ever get the balance back in the pot in the life time of the plant remaining. A couple of choices = drastic 200% of the volume of the pot flush with PH 6.2 RO or distilled water then immediately follow with a light feed 50% strength of balance nutrients. Or a 50% of the pot volume flush with 50% strength balanced PH 6.3 nutrients 3 times now then over the next 2 times the pot needs watering. This is less likely to cause a hermie than the first method but the plants may not recover from the lock-out fast enough? Both methods are stressful to plants already under major stress.

It would be beneficial to apply a foliar application of Fulvic Acid 5 parts, Kelp 2 parts and a little B vitamins. Try to keep it off the buds and make sure to have pleanty of air movement so the plants are dry before lights out.

Thanks for the info. I’ve never used another soil other than OF and never had any issues. I failed to mention the Malibu compost teas at 30 and 60 days. I’ve also not fed this plant any nutrients other than today’s feeding in 10 days. I have been using mammoth P. It had non sulphured molasses at about the same time as last feeding. The only change is the cal mag. I’ve also continually phD any irrigation and applied cal mag. Ran RO water.

 

[Elroyyboy]

Thanks for the info. I’ve never used another soil other than OF and never had any issues. I failed to mention the Malibu compost teas at 30 and 60 days. I’ve also not fed this plant any nutrients other than today’s feeding in 10 days. I have been using mammoth P. It had non sulphured molasses at about the same time as last feeding. The only change is the cal mag. I’ve also continually phD any irrigation and applied cal mag. Ran RO water.

And I’ve always read and heard never to foliar spray after week 2-3 in flower. I’m a little confused now.

 

[Elroyyboy]

@Elroyyboy Welcome to AFN
Looks like a case of full scale lock-out. My first guess is too much calcium. HF is an amended soil. That means they put minerals in it already. For the most part these minerals are broken down slowly by microbe action to make them available to the plant. Recharge is full of microbes and stuff to feed and encourage the microbes to produce more nutrients for the plant including calcium. Then you are dumping more calcium and bamm too much.

Then it sounds like you may be feeding a single element at a time. This is the definition of "Out of balance". When you fertigate with a single element it rinses the more balanced (at least supposed to be balanced) nutrients away from the roots and bamm now you have a magnesium lock-out.

Fertigation should always be with nutrients balanced in these weight to liter ratios:

View attachment 1264451

The problem with pre-charged soils is how do you ever know what is still in the pot?

The safest way to utilize a precharged soil is by following the vendors chart with their product line only. When you start to mix and match it is like nutrient roulette. They spend millions of dollars developing a system that will work together. Take advantage of that. Use all of the products listed here. Do not pick and choose or mix with other lines. Bio-stimulants like Kelp, Humic acid, Mammoth P etc. from other vendors is ok.

View attachment 1264452
Because most autoflowers are faster and smaller than their Photoperiod counterparts they need less nutrients for the given part of their life cycle. So when using a vendors schedule it is best to start at 50% strength and up it 10% a week until you get a little bit of tip burn. Then back-off 10%, this will have you feeding the plant at the level it likes.

From where you are now there are no good choices but it looks critical to me so flushing is most likely needed. Flushing soil fooks it up. The salts are easily rinsed out along with the microbes but the minerals will remain. This makes it hard to ever get the balance back in the pot in the life time of the plant remaining. A couple of choices = drastic 200% of the volume of the pot flush with PH 6.2 RO or distilled water then immediately follow with a light feed 50% strength of balance nutrients. Or a 50% of the pot volume flush with 50% strength balanced PH 6.3 nutrients 3 times now then over the next 2 times the pot needs watering. This is less likely to cause a hermie than the first method but the plants may not recover from the lock-out fast enough? Both methods are stressful to plants already under major stress.

It would be beneficial to apply a foliar application of Fulvic Acid 5 parts, Kelp 2 parts and a little B vitamins. Try to keep it off the buds and make sure to have pleanty of air movement so the plants are dry before lights out.

Well, I flushed my plants this morning. Based on trichromes I’m pretty close to chop. Hopefully I can salvage something.
Going back through my journal I realized that I wasn’t always feeding to run off. Terrible mistake I learned 8 years ago on my first photoperiod bathtub grow.
Appreciate the help.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Well, I flushed my plants this morning. Based on trichromes I’m pretty close to chop. Hopefully I can salvage something.
Going back through my journal I realized that I wasn’t always feeding to run off. Terrible mistake I learned 8 years ago on my first photoperiod bathtub grow.
Appreciate the help.

You are not alone in forgetting some of the lessons of the past. I have repeated mistakes more than once

 

[Elroyyboy]

You are not alone in forgetting some of the lessons of the past. I have repeated mistakes more than once

Thanks. I’m gearing up for a coco hempy bucket run of photos. I’ll pay attention. Guess the first thing I learned about coco is fertigation to runoff. Getting my timer and top drip fine tuned. We’ll see.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Thanks. I’m gearing up for a coco hempy bucket run of photos. I’ll pay attention. Guess the first thing I learned about coco is fertigation to runoff. Getting my timer and top drip fine tuned. We’ll see.

Management of calcium inputs is the hardest thing to learn in coco. Your starting water "Hardness" is the first thing you need to know. If you are on municipal water there will be a water quality report online. Start there, the information to look for is hardness and sanitation. Screen shot those sections and post in here. I will explain where to go from there.

 

[Blu_tri]

Plants have a peculiar way of speaking to you. Most notably is how it presents it leaves. Budding, like pregnancy to a woman, is a heavy burden on a cannabis plant. It react accordingly. So what you see as a deficiency, and it is just that, is how the plant makes sacrifices to ensure it future progeny.
In other words, the cannabis plant as already made adjustments for the deficiency you are chasing. By trying to help the plant you are either making matters worse, because the plant has to readjust itself again to the new conditions that you are giving it. This adjustment time coincides with elongated grow times. Just my opinion. happy growing brother!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

And I’ve always read and heard never to foliar spray after week 2-3 in flower. I’m a little confused now.

That is true under normal circumstances. Getting buds wet can initiate bud rot. The elements used can change the flavor of the bud. This is why I suggested to avoid the buds with the spray. The thing is we want to get some elements into the plant ASAP and foliar is right now. Is there some risk yes but I think it is worth it.