Help my little Diesel Ryders please!!!

K

Kronic808

Guest
Im in Day 35 (start Week 6 from seed tomorr) and have noticed leaves discoloring within the last week. What is the cause of yellowing? Nute burn, pH, or Nitro deficiency?

Started more on the bottom leaves. Thought maybe a lack of light to lower canopy since im LSTing and using CFL so no good penetration, so leaves are falling... But it's slowly working upwards so not sure now.

Soil: 50/50 Foxfarm Ocean Forest/Light Warrior. Much less hot since I added 50% light warrior.

Nutes: Biobizz line, shown below. Started nute feeding in end of week 3. I feed with every feed with Distilled Water, that would be every 3 days.

pH: I have been using pH water drops with success but last 2 times I had trouble trying to determine if it was yellow or orange. Molasses color made it hard to read. Distilled water I use is around 6.8 I would say. Dropped $100 on a Milwaukee pH meter last night. Can't wait.

Here is the nute schedule so far:

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* Epsom is 1 tsp/gallon once per week, when given.
* Molasses is shown in tsp/gallon, every other feed.

Started the BioHeaven and then noticed problems so not sure if that is the culprit or not. Because if it's nitro deficiency, then bioheaven should help.

Pic #1 is leaf in the middle of plant.
Pic #2,3,4 are leaves in the bottom of plant.


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Also, the stems on the healthier leaves are purple/pink and the veins on the back of leaves are slightly purple/pink.

Genetics? Deficiency?

Take it all into factor if you will....

Please let me know anything else I can provide.

Thanks in advance!
 
well thanks for all the info... love when we get one that posts all their shit... thanks for that...

now...

looks like a little phosphorus deff... and probably a lil nitrogen as well...

and went back n looked at your feed chart... seems a bit shy on nutes IMO... upp your schedule to double that or so... not so familiar with biobizz...

but in the site search box use the terms "FD's fert sched" you'll find his sched as a guideline...

ph meter will help reassure we're on target there...
yeah... up the grow and flower nutes both.... that yellowing is starting on the bottom and working up, yes?

---------- Post added 11-10-2011 at 02:47 AM ----------

also... keep the epsom salts in every 2nd or 3rd watering.... in fact you might give a foliar spray of that... im leaning more toward that now...

Phosphorus (P) Mobile Element and Macro Element
Benefit: Phosphorus does a lot of things for the plant. One of the most important parts of Phosphorus is: It aids in root growth and influences the vigour of the plant and is
one of the most important elements in flowering as well helps to germinate seedlings.
Phosphorus is an essential plant nutrient, and since it is needed in large amounts, it is classified as a macronutrient. Phosphorus is a MAJOR important nutrient in the plants reproductive stages. Without this element the plants will have a lot of problems blooming without proper levels of Phosphorus.

When your plants are deficient in phosphorus, this can overall reduce the size of your plants. Not enough causes slow growth and causes the plant to become weak, to little amount of Phosphorus causes slow growths in leaves that may or may not drop off. The edges all around the leaves or half of the leaves can be brownish and work its way inwards a bit causing the part of the leaves to curl up in the air a bit. Fan leaves will show dark greenish/purplish and yellowish tones along with a dullish blue colour to them. Sometimes the stems can be red, along with red petioles that can happen when having a Phosphorus deficiency. This isn’t a sure sure sign of you having one though, but can be a sign. Some strains just show the red petioles and stems from its genes.
So pretty much the overall dark green colour with a purple, red, or blue tint to the fan leaves is a good sign of a Phosphorus deficiency. Having Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can make phosphorous absorption very troublesome for plants.
Many people get a Phosphorus deficiency confused with a fungus problem because the ends of the leaves look like a fungus problem, But the damage occurs at the end of the leaves. side of the leaves and has a glass like feeling to it as if it had a ph problem. Parts affected by a phosphorus deficiency are: Older Leaves, Whole plant, Petioles.

Too much Phosphorus levels affect plant growth by suppressing the uptake of: Iron, potassium and Zinc, potentially causing deficiency symptoms of these nutrients to occur def in plants. A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions,
As well as causing other nutrients to have absorption troubles like zinc and copper. Phosphorus fluctuates when concentrated and combined with calcium

Problems with Phosphorus being locked out by PH troubles
Cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil.

Soil

Phosphorus gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0-5.5
Phosphorus is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-7.5 (wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Phosphorus gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 6.0-8.5.
Phosphorus is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0- 5.8. (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus Deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Phosphorus deficiency
Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Phosphorus in them will fix a Phosphorus deficiency. If you have a phosphorus deficiency you should use any N-P-K ratio that is over 5.Again Peters all purpose 20-20-20 is a good mix. Miracle grow Tomato plant food, Miracle grow All purpose plant food (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Other forms of phosphorus supplements are: Bone meal, which is gradual absorption, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where bone/blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Fruit eating bat guano, which is fast absorption, Worm castings, which is gradual absorption, Fish meal, which is medium absorption, Soft Rock Phosphate, which is medium absorption, Jamaican or Indonesian Guano, which is fast absorption. Crabshell, which is slow absorption. Tiger Bloom , which is fast absorption.

Here is a list of things to help fix a Phosphrous Deficiency.

Chemical

Advanced nutrients Bloom (0-5-4)
Vita Bloom (0-7-5)
BC Bloom (1.1-4.4-7)
GH Flora Bloom (0-5-4)
GH Maxi Bloom (5-15-14)
GH Floranova Bloom (4-8-7)
Dyna-Gro Bloom (3-12-6)
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom (2-8-4)
Awsome Blossums

Organic

Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Bloom (4-3-6)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Bloom (.5-1.5-2)
Fox Farm Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
Pure Blend Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Buddswell (0-7-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Indonesian Bat Guano (0-13-0)
Rainbow Mix Bloom (1-9-2)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
BIO BLOOM (2-6-3.5)
AGE OLD BLOOM (5-10-5)
ALASKA MORBLOOM (0-10-10)
METANATURALS ORGANIC BLOOM (1-5-5)

Any of these will cure your phosphorus deficiency. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.

Now if you added to much chemical ferts and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss,
Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.

Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your ph go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your ph.

Picture 1 is a Phosphorus deficiency during vegetative growth.
Picture 2 is what a phosphorus deficiency looks like in flowering.

(Picture 1 is Mine)



Potassium (K) Mobile Element and Macro Element

Potassium plays a big role as well. Having good amounts of potassium in your plants helps in having sturdy and thick stems, disease-resistance, water respiration, as well aids in photosynthesis. Potassium is also found in the whole plant. It is necessary for all activities having to do with water transportation. Potassium is necessary for all stages of growth, especially important in the development of Buds.

Having to little of Potassium in your plants causes the plants leaves to show retarded growth and show a scorched tip and edges around the leaves. Plants may stretch and your branches can be easily broken or weak. Don’t get this deficiency confused with iron, because it almost acts like iron but to tell the difference in the two is: for potassium the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die. Older leaves may show a red colour and leaves could curl upwards. Dead patches (Necrosis) can happen on the margins of larger fan leaves thus, the leaves will eventually die off and turn brown. The Older leaves will show different patches of colour (mottle) and turn yellow between the veins, following by whole leaves that turn dark yellow and die. The plants overall growth slows down, mostly when they are in vegetative stage. To little amount of potassium also slows the growth of buds during flowering stages. Dark edges will appear around the edges of the leaf when the deficiency is starting to happen. When your Relative humidity is low, you can almost bet your going to soon get a potassium deficiency from your plants perspiration.
Potassium can get poorly absorbed when having too much Calcium or ammonium nitrogen, and maybe cold weather. Having to much sodium (Na) causes potassium to be displaced. SO keep those in mind… Parts affected by a Potassium Deficiency are: older leaves and leaf margins.

When you have too much Potassium in your soil, it can lead to big troubles, like salt damage and acid fixation of the root system, as well as too much potassium can cause a calcium deficiency. Your fan leaves will show like a light to a dark yellow to whitish colour in between the veins. Due to a molecular imbalance, potassium toxicity can cause a reduced uptake and lead to the deficiencies of Mg, and in some cases, Ca. Also leads to the other nutrients to not be absorbed properly leading to lots of other deficiency such as: magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron and can cause problems with calcium as well.

Problems with Potassium being locked out by PH troubles
Soils with excessive Leeching and High ph soils and or water.Soils that are potassium fixated. An excess of kitchen salts (sodium) in the root system/environment.

Soil

Potassium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0-5.5
Potassium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-9.5. (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Potassium deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Potassium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0-4.5, 6.0-6.5.
Potassium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.7-5.3, 6.7-8.5. (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a potassium deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Potassium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have potassium in them will fix a potassium deficiency. Again Peters All Purpose plant food 20-20-20, will cure the potassium deficiency , Miracle grow Tomato plant food, Miracle grow All purpose plant food.( Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Some other supplements of potassium are: Wood ashes, which are fast absorption, Kelp Meal, which is medium absorption, Greensand, which is slow absorption, granite dust, which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Sulfate of Potash Magnesia, Muriate of Potash, which are medium absorption. FOXFARM GROW BIG HYDROPONIC CONCENTRATE, which is fast absorption. (FFGB can bring your ph down as well) Earth Juice Meta-K, which is fast acting. (Can bring down your ph as well) Leaves will never recover, but the plant will show recovery after about 4 to 5 days when using a fast acting nutrient.

Note: Wood Ashes, can make your ph go up a bit, so please monitor your ph when using it.
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

Picture 1 and 2 shows a Potassium deficiency




Magnesium (Mg) - Micronutrient and Mobile Element

Magnesium helps supports healthy veins while keeping a healthy leaf production and its structure. Magnesium is significant for chlorophyll-production and enzyme break downs. Magnesium which must be present in relatively large quantities for the plant to survive, but yet not to much to where it will cause the plant to show a toxicity.

Magnesium is one of the easiest deficiencies to tell… the green veins along with the yellowness of the entire surrounding leave is a dead giveaway, but sometimes that’s not always the case here. In case you have one of those where it doesn’t show the green veins, sometimes leaf tips and edges may discolour and curl upward. The growing tips can turn lime green when the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant. The edges will feel like dry and crispy and usually affects the lower leaves in younger plants, then will affect the middle to upper half when it gets older, but It can also happen on older leaves as well. The deficiency will start at the tip then will take over the entire outer left and right sides of the leaves. The inner part will be yellow and or brownish in colour, followed by leaves falling without withering. The tips can also twist and turn as well as curving upwards as if you curl your tongues.

Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca). Mg can get locked out by having too much Calcium, Chlorine or ammonium in your soil/water.
One of the worst problems a person can have is a magnesium def caused by a ph lockout. By giving it more magnesium to cure the problem when you are thinking you are doing good, but actually you are doing more harm then good. When the plants can’t take in a nutrient because of the ph being off for that element, the plant will not absorb it but it will be in the soil… therefore causing a buildup. A buildup will be noticed by the outer parts of the plant becoming whitish and or a yellowish color. The tips and part way in on the inner leaves will die and feel like glass. Parts affected by Magnesium deficiency are: space between the veins (Interveinal) of older leaves; may begin around interior perimeter of leaf.

Problems with Magnesium being locked out by PH troubles

Light Acid Soils, soils with excessive potassium, calcium and or phosphorus

Soil

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

Picture one shows a mid grade magnesium deficiency.

(Pictures courtesy of -43)


 
Thanks JM, I appreciate it bro! More details and info helps us fix the problem in 1 attempt. To be honest I was kind of waiting for your feedback.

- Additional espsom..... check!

- Nutes: FYI, the tsp value for the Biogrow/Biobloom are per liter. Im following a schedule by Agito written in the fertilizer/soil section, but havn't increased the BioGrow per yellowing of leaves as he stated. I wasn't sure if I was indeed dealing with a nitro deficiency or not, just wanted to make sure before I increased ferts. The biobizz line is organic so it shouldn't burn. Tomorrow is the next feed so it was getting increased per the schedule anyways. I will also add an additional .5 - 1.0 mL grow.

Question: When I water my plant's pot, how much runoff should come out? I water just enough to let a few drops come out only. Maybe I should increase the amount on the next water/nute feeding so about a cup of runoff comes out? I thought maybe this had something to do with it??
 
np mate... all true...

i almost never have to allow runoff on mine... but im real tuned to my ladies... ultimately i wouldnt be giving you good advice if i didnt lay down the standard reccomeneded...

so you SHOULD have about 10% runoff each watering... 10% of the pots soil volume....

this helps prevent excess salts buildup.. though i find it unnecessary myself... i also start resh soil each round so max time in is typically 60-100 days... usually more on the 60-80 range

:smokebuds:
 
I upped the nutes on grow and bloom. I fed them 2 days ago and also added epsom salts, and balanced pH to 6.5.

Today, they look much vibrant and are are smelling much more pungent. These poor babies sure were hungry and deficient!!! The buds look like they blew up in 2 days, especially the spindly sativa pheno.

Thanks again for the help, priceless bro!! Wish I could send u a nice gift, im sure she would be delighted for helping her out. :D

I don't want to get too excited and to think it's all over, so Ill keep us updated after my next feeding. I plan to increase a notch more on the nutes, and keep it steady until last 2 weeks and then to taper down the nitrogen relatively more than the PK.

pz for now
 
glad we could help you mate.... the only gift I ask if you want to give... is what you've learned, when others come in.... help them..... just pass it on.

:smokebuds:

I would also just stop feeding and flush for the last 7 days when the time comes... but we'll get there.

:smoke:
 
Absolutely, I sure will help out where I can. I do believe in karma and what goes around comes around!

Ok sounds good, ill get an update soon.

pz
 
if using i light potting mix the grow might have to upped to 1.5-2ml a litre and if its soiless as high as 3ml per litre to give it enough N
whoop see you have already done it :)
 
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