Caught 2nd dose of root rot in RDWC over New Years 2018.

[Henry]

Maybe it’s just bad luck, surely the 2nd dose of root rot cannot be my fault again, but it is definitely my 2nd serious problem with it and it’s real. A bad omen and that is definitely cryptic.

Second dose of RR in second RDWC crop, batting 100% crop failure again, frustration, aggravating and a constant worry all the time just waiting, watching for those symptoms.

Do all RDWC worry about RR all the time, anxiously checking the roots every day hoping, wishing, preying the roots are not getting sick and dying.

I have a buddy that says, “get-a-grip on your emotions dude, adjust to the stress because that angst and crop failure is the hidden cost you will pay for RDWC, DWC pot growing. That toll is paid every day. Sometimes you win, sometimes you will fail, but you will always worry about roots dying every day, rotting and fungal diseases if you chose the hydroponic way of gardening.” If you are an aquaponics gardener, the worry cost is far greater because you have to keep a bunch of fish alive and healthy too… more aerobic eco systems living in the tub is much more challenging than just roots and microbes living in those tubs of water.

Just wondering, do any of you RDWC, DWC growers on this forum ever worry about the root rot syndrome and fungi infestations, sometimes, never? The root rot happens so quickly, overnight and the roots are dying and dead, then plants are wilting, looking real bad.

How about some opinions form you forum gurus on this specific RDWC, DWC problem…

What comes first, insects, rotting roots rot or Pythium fungal outbreaks like a herpes outbreak? What is the real cause of root rot in RDWC pot grows? Is RR preventable?... How can a RDWC, DWC pot grower prevent roots from rotting if that is possible?

2 crop failure, many questions. Happy New Year.

Thanks

 

[Boradan]

New to Growing (first grow link in sig) but from what I have read:

Maintain water temps at 62 > 68F (17 > 20C)
Keep the water well aerated - there are a few threads about using a LOT of air around your roots that helps prevent Rot. Most simple aquarium pumps output about 7 to 9 litres per minute - the threads I mentioned involve pushing that up to 30+ Litres per minute (preventing root rot is just a side effect of maximizing your roots oxygen supply).
Beneficial bacteria. These kill the bacteria that cause root rot.

 

[woody]

Are you using hydroguard or sm-90?
If not i cant recommend these highly enough i wouldnt even attempt hydro without one of these.
Some good points froms @Boradan there.
Also heres some more reading on it.
https://www.autoflower.org/threads/plythium-root-rot-an-in-depth-analysis.53680/

 

[Henry]

The reservoir water temperature is around 65F without a chiller all the time, every day here. “….(preventing root rot is just a side effect of maximizing your roots oxygen supply).” Sounds like this would be great even if that’s all it does.
Does pumping more air through a bubbler guarantee more oxygen?
Will a bigger air pump and more sir stones insure more oxygen for the roots?

I have heard of that sm-90, never tried it.

 

[jingo]

Are you using hydroguard or sm-90?
If not i cant recommend these highly enough i wouldnt even attempt hydro without one of these.
Some good points froms @Boradan there.
Also heres some more reading on it.
https://www.autoflower.org/threads/plythium-root-rot-an-in-depth-analysis.53680/

Never had a problem in Hydro once I started using sm-90, I like it so much I still use it in Coco.




Where I'm currently growing
Where I'll be Nov 1st

 

[woody]

Never had a problem in Hydro once I started using sm-90, I like it so much I still use it in Coco.

Yea man its a great product. I grew dwc in a warm summer res temps were around 30oc and still no root problems


Where I'm currently growing
Where I'll be Nov 1st

 

[Henry]

A few thoughts to ponder on the 3 day of 2018 when it’s freezing cold outside and boredom has set in.

How do surfactants, wetting agents, and adjuvants actually work? More interesting stuff…
Using Surfactants, Wetting Agents, and Adjuvants in the Greenhouse http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1319#Adjuvantsvssurfactants Bulletin 1319

Adjuvants - “The waxy surfaces of many insects, fungi, and plants make it difficult for most water-based spray solutions to penetrate their target. To overcome this barrier, adjuvants have been developed. Adjuvants can determine how well a pesticide works but, when used inappropriately, they can cause crop damage. Adjuvant is a broad term describing any additive to a spray tank that enhances pesticide activity.”

SM-90 is advertised to be a “wetting agent,” albeit it’s probably a good, inexpensive wetting agent on the pro side of the equation. Wetting agents contain surfactants that makes water a lot wetter.

The pH of surfactants that contain detergents (like unlike common dish washing and laundry detergents like Tide) is often highly basic, pH > 9.0 which may explain the elevated pH problems associated with using SM-90 in DWC cannabis gardening. Again on the pro side of the equation, the high alkaline pH may easily be the magic that inhibits and retards bacterial and fungal growth and colonization.

Prepared from natural plant oils, Nutrilife SM-90 https://www.planetnatural.com/product/sm-90/ may be used as a wetting agent in both field and hydroponic applications. Encourages new root growth and can be applied as a foliar spray or directly in reservoirs with nutrient solutions. 100% bio-degradable and non-toxic to humans, animals and plants.

On the con side, I also read: Beware of SM-90!! https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10283 posted March 8, 2005… posted nearly 13 years ago. The trade-off between dealing with high basic pH in reservoir water and reservoir with an acid pH <7.0 in DWC Cannabis cultivation is clear. The pH sword is doubled edged.

I called and spoke with a salesman, a SM-90 distributor and ask what the pH of the SM-90 concentrate is. He told me that, “the pH in the concentrate is unknown to the general public and that information is not available to consumers. There’s nothing in the product literature that specs out concentrate pH. This salesman I spoke with reminded me of the infamous California Politico Nancy Pelosi, CA when the salesman told me to buy a bottle of SM-90, test the pH when I get it and discover what the pH is if I really needed to know.

But, you must buy it first and then test the pH to find out what the pH is. That salesman’s response to a simple question about product pH was impressive along with a very quick pivot to a different subject!

 

[Ydijadoit]

1ml per 10 gallons of good old unscented Clorox bleach will do wonders for you. I know it's controversial, but I ran it for years, and never saw any deficiencies or toxic results from it. Tried a few of the bottled chicken poop solutions, but had no success with them.
Bleach works, I know that from experience. Just be mindful, that is ONE ML per TEN gallons of res solution.
Good luck, root rot sux!
Regards, Kyle

 

[Ydijadoit]

And, since I've always liked the saying "pics or it didn't happen", here are a couple shots of my old Co2 4x4 cabinet, running Botanicare Kind nutes, and a little bit of bleach in the water. Roots were always perfectly white. Water temps were right at 70f, if I recall. Old pics from 2013, but judge for yourself whether they look healthy and happy...
Kyle

 

[jingo]

A few thoughts to ponder on the 3 day of 2018 when it’s freezing cold outside and boredom has set in.

How do surfactants, wetting agents, and adjuvants actually work? More interesting stuff…
Using Surfactants, Wetting Agents, and Adjuvants in the Greenhouse http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1319#Adjuvantsvssurfactants Bulletin 1319

Adjuvants - “The waxy surfaces of many insects, fungi, and plants make it difficult for most water-based spray solutions to penetrate their target. To overcome this barrier, adjuvants have been developed. Adjuvants can determine how well a pesticide works but, when used inappropriately, they can cause crop damage. Adjuvant is a broad term describing any additive to a spray tank that enhances pesticide activity.”

SM-90 is advertised to be a “wetting agent,” albeit it’s probably a good, inexpensive wetting agent on the pro side of the equation. Wetting agents contain surfactants that makes water a lot wetter.

The pH of surfactants that contain detergents (like unlike common dish washing and laundry detergents like Tide) is often highly basic, pH > 9.0 which may explain the elevated pH problems associated with using SM-90 in DWC cannabis gardening. Again on the pro side of the equation, the high alkaline pH may easily be the magic that inhibits and retards bacterial and fungal growth and colonization.

Prepared from natural plant oils, Nutrilife SM-90 https://www.planetnatural.com/product/sm-90/ may be used as a wetting agent in both field and hydroponic applications. Encourages new root growth and can be applied as a foliar spray or directly in reservoirs with nutrient solutions. 100% bio-degradable and non-toxic to humans, animals and plants.

On the con side, I also read: Beware of SM-90!! https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10283 posted March 8, 2005… posted nearly 13 years ago. The trade-off between dealing with high basic pH in reservoir water and reservoir with an acid pH <7.0 in DWC Cannabis cultivation is clear. The pH sword is doubled edged.

I called and spoke with a salesman, a SM-90 distributor and ask what the pH of the SM-90 concentrate is. He told me that, “the pH in the concentrate is unknown to the general public and that information is not available to consumers. There’s nothing in the product literature that specs out concentrate pH. This salesman I spoke with reminded me of the infamous California Politico Nancy Pelosi, CA when the salesman told me to buy a bottle of SM-90, test the pH when I get it and discover what the pH is if I really needed to know.

But, you must buy it first and then test the pH to find out what the pH is. That salesman’s response to a simple question about product pH was impressive along with a very quick pivot to a different subject!

I think I did all the same research you're doing before I started using sm-90. I even saw that same negative article on the icmag and it kind of had me worrying a little bit.

I've been using sm90 now for about 4 years started off in Hydro. In Hydro I always used 2 mil per gallon and the plant growth was faster and more robust and of course I never had any root rot problems.

It's also an insecticide and was originally called spider mite 90. But labeling it as an insecticide ran them a foul of regulators in California. Plus spider mites on the West Coast United States are now like the Borg and you really have problems you don't kill him with simple plant oils anymore. I have used it to treat thrips and it does a great job.

I have never had a problem because of the high ph, and I never tested the pH. I can tell you it's really knockout deadly for powdery mildew and that's probably due to the pH.

I've never caused any plant damaged by using it and I do use it as a foliar spray sometimes just by itself if I think a plant just isn't looking totally happy.

The state of Washington declined sm-90 for use on cannabis for human consumption. If you ever want to do some interesting research look at Washington and Colorado approved pesticides for cannabis plants. The reason Washington gave for declining sm-90 is they did not disclose a plant hormone derived from Willows in Aspen's. It's a perfectly safe hormone and sometimes I would take chips off my willow tree outside and put it in the same water that I was rooting a clone in. Works quite well.

I suspect that sm-90 may impart a negative flavor on the plant if you don't have a three day flush. At least I suspect it's sm-90 that gives my bud a funky flavor if I don't do a three day clear water flush and again I'm in Coco.

I use reverse osmosis as my background water. It has a pH of about 6.2 starting out. by the time I mix in all my General Hydroponics nutes and my sm-90 and my armor SI which by itself is a very alkaline substance. I end up needing about 10 or 12 drops of pH Down per 5 gallons of nutrient mix. I buy 75% Tech grade phosphoric acid and I dilute that by half with my reverse osmosis water and that's how I make my pH Down. Very inexpensive and lasts a long time and plants need phosphorus.

So I guess that's even more stuff for you to think about.




Where I'm currently growing
Where I'll be Nov 1st