Extraction BHO, ISO and Edibles Questions

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Hey folks, I've got a few specific questions that I'm hoping I can get some answers for from the community.

I have some beautiful Northern Lights nugs that I thought I was curing properly. One day I cracked it and took a sniff and the aroma had changed to one of deliciously sweet berry and I thought that was the magical turning point in the cure and so I closed it up to stay sealed. A month later I went to pull a nug from the jar and I noticed a mildew-y smell in it and spotted some white fuzz growing on a bud. I took a microscope to the nugs and I could see the fuzz growing on the trichome heads and all over the place, that fibrous mycorrhizal stuff. I've heard that I can salvage this by processing it into a concentrate but I'm not sure if all concentrates are created equal in this regard. I would assume that an iso bath would kill it all but I don't know for certain and I was specifically told to do the BHO thing but I don't if that would be effective for certain either.

Next, with QWISO, I keep seeing people stating that it's advisable to freeze your material and ISO. The only explanation I've seen for this is to foster the brittleness of the trichomes to make them separate more easily but doesn't the ISO dissolve the trichomes and all the THC and cannabinoids? Is brittleness really a factor in this process?

I have other material that I will be making butter with but I would like to make some edibles from this northern lights as it has better medicinal properties. Is it safe to make edibles from a QWISO or a BHO concentrate? I know that it's advised to use food grade alcohols but that isn't an option in my market so I'm trying to figure out the best way to salvage this otherwise garbage end-product.
 
Sounds like mold. I had that happen to me.
I have no clue if any of those methods eliminate the potential problems with the mold. You allergic?
 
Salvaging Moldy Material

Posted by Skunk Pharm Research, LLC.

The question whether mold material is safe to use, regularly comes up on multiple forums, and there is no more a yes or no answer to the question, than there is about eating wild mushrooms. All molds were not created equal!

Like mushrooms, molds belong to families, and while some are salubrious and even used by us in manufacturing processes, others can be deadly.

All of us have smoked moldy material, whether we knew it or not, because it is all around us, but unless you have a compromised immune system or are allergic to the spores, you don’t notice it.

In quantities large enough to create an allergic reaction, or with compromised immune systems however, the results range from a runny nose, to death.

The mold spores are the principle source of allergic reactions, but allergic reactions aside, some of the molds produce aflatoxins that attack our central nervous system and livers. Mold material can easily be removed by filtration, but filtration doesn’t remove aflatoxins.

When considering what to do with moldy material, the pregnant question is what kind of mold? What caused the mold is a clue, but the only reliable way to tell, is with a microscope, and I recommend that you do a microscopic examination to determine exactly what you are dealing with.

Locally, due to our short growing season, Botrytis bud rot is the bane of outdoor growers, and because of our high humidity, Powdery Mildew is everywhere.

upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg
Botrytis Mold


upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg Powdery Mildew

The good news is that while the spores of both are capable of producing a Type I allergic reaction to those sensitive to them, neither produce know aflatoxins, so simply removing all the spores and mold material, makes it useable by removing allergens, as well as the ghastly moldy taste and smell.

Botrytis is actually the mold that produces Noble Rot in grapes, which is highly prized by wine makers for producing sweet wines. I know of no prized use of ubiquitous powdery mildew and it is known by many other names, some of them not repeatable in polite company.

Of serious concern, an not to be taken lightly, are the Aspergillus and Penicillum molds, which are hard to distinguish from one another with simple microscopic examination, so are generally classified as Pen/Asp types.

They are easy to spot, as they were named Aspergillus because their shape, consisting of a shaft with a head like the religious water flinger the priests use, called an Aspergillum.

upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg

upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_fumigatus

Aspergillus is primarily a composting mold living off dead plant material, while Botrytis and Powdery Mildew target living material.

As previously noted, it has spores everywhere, but poorly cured material is the primary reason for an infestation. It likes to grow in dark damp places.

Aspergillus is the more serious actor when it comes to serious health effects, both from allergic reactions to its spores, invasive colonization, and from its aflatoxins, but Penicillium sp. is known to cause keratitis, external ear, respiratory and urinary tract infections, so it isn’t soft and cuddly.

The allergenic effects seen by Aspergillus spores include:Type I allergies; Type III hypersensitivity pneumonitis and others.

Some Aspergillus species are known to produce aflatoxins. A. fumigatus causes allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis and allergic fungal sinusitis.

Members of this genus cause a disease called Aspergillosis, which is an invasive infection, colonization, toxicoses or allergy.

Many species grow at body temperature and they are opportunistic pathogens, causing infection in individuals with compromised immune systems.

Many toxins are generated by this genus, however, the full range of effects of these toxins are not well researched at this time. They do fluoresce under ultraviolet light however, so their presence may detected by examination under a black light inspection lamp, such is used in Magnetic Particle and FPI Non-destructive Inspection techniques.

The aflatoxins will fluoresce green under the backlight and any residual solvent will fluoresce blue.

upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg

While not a mold, a bacteria anaerobic conditions created by poor curing practices promotes the growth of, and which has been found in poorly cured cannabis, is the Clostridiums.

The Clostridiums includes C botulinum causing botulism in food, and from which Botox is derived, as well as C Perfringens, which causes food poisoning and gas gangrene, as well as C Tetani, the pathogen causing tetanus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium
Soooo, now that you know what to look for, if after examining your moldy material under a microscope, you still want to recover it, here is how we remove Botrytis and Powdery Mildew filaments and spores, as well as any of the Clostridium bacteria that may be present.

Our next step is to extract the essential oil from the plant material, using either an alkane or an alcohol.

If we use hexane or an alcohol, we do the filtration before evaporating off the solvent, or if we extract with butane, we redissolve the BHO in at least ten times its volume in ethanol for filtration.

Rough filtration:

We first filter through a coffee filter to remove the gross material and then through a Whatman [HASHTAG]#1[/HASHTAG] lab filter, using a vacuum assist, to save time.
upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg

Micro filtration:

Once it has been rough filtered, we then follow up by polishing it at 0.2 microns, using a 0.2 micron syringe filter. It has a Luhr fitting, and screws on the syringe just like a needle.
upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg

In industry, I used 0.2 micron cross flow micro filtration units to scrub radio active effluent streams at up to 100 gpm, but for small needs like ours, the syringe filter suffices.

They are readily available relatively cheap on E-Bay, or at reasonable prices at American Scientific, as are the syringes.

Once we have filtered at 0.2 microns, we remove the solvent by one of several methods, and the oil will have no hint of mold flavor or taste.
Since it is the spores that cause the Type I allergic reactions, that hazard is eliminated as well.

Any Clostridiums are removed, so subsequent storage in anaerobic conditions can’t provide favorable conditions.

To repeat, filtration doesn’t remove aflatoxins, so we don’t recommend this process for mold strains that produce them.

The attached read is a good overview on some of the other things you may find in cannabis:

http://www.hempfood.com/iha/iha01205.html

December 15, 2016 at 7:53 AM

upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.png




I need to know if moldy bud can be salcaged as a tincture or salve for aches and pains?

  • upload_2017-1-16_18-24-41.jpeg


    Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on October 13, 2016 at 6:09 AM

    Define mold? They aren’t all created equal.
    Molds that grow on living tissue, like Powdery Mildew and Botrytis, produce no known aflatoxins, so if you filter the concentrate and alcohol solution through a 0.2 micron syringe filter, it should be good for that application.
    While they aren’t toxic, they smell and taste like mold, and some folks can have a Type 1 allergic reaction to just the spores and filaments of Botrytis.
    Composting molds growing on dead tissue on the other hand, may produce aflatoxins, and they won’t be removed by the filtration. Aflatoxins attack the central nervous system.
    They can also be carried into your body with the transdermal cannabinoids, so using as a topical isn’t a good idea either.
    Aspergillus is one of the most common composting molds, and if you look at the mold or the aflatoxins that it produces under a NDT inspection black light, it will phosphoresce green, which may give you some idea whether it’s present or the degree of the contamination.

    GW
Next, with QWISO, I keep seeing people stating that it's advisable to freeze your material and ISO. The only explanation I've seen for this is to foster the brittleness of the trichomes to make them separate more easily but doesn't the ISO dissolve the trichomes and all the THC and cannabinoids? Is brittleness really a factor in this process?

I thought the reason for freezing was to isolate the water solubles of the cannabis and reduce chlorophyll ( the bitter taste).
:smokeit:
 
Salvaging Moldy Material

Posted by Skunk Pharm Research, LLC.

The question whether mold material is safe to use, regularly comes up on multiple forums, and there is no more a yes or no answer to the question, than there is about eating wild mushrooms. All molds were not created equal!

Like mushrooms, molds belong to families, and while some are salubrious and even used by us in manufacturing processes, others can be deadly.

All of us have smoked moldy material, whether we knew it or not, because it is all around us, but unless you have a compromised immune system or are allergic to the spores, you don’t notice it.

In quantities large enough to create an allergic reaction, or with compromised immune systems however, the results range from a runny nose, to death.

The mold spores are the principle source of allergic reactions, but allergic reactions aside, some of the molds produce aflatoxins that attack our central nervous system and livers. Mold material can easily be removed by filtration, but filtration doesn’t remove aflatoxins.

When considering what to do with moldy material, the pregnant question is what kind of mold? What caused the mold is a clue, but the only reliable way to tell, is with a microscope, and I recommend that you do a microscopic examination to determine exactly what you are dealing with.

Locally, due to our short growing season, Botrytis bud rot is the bane of outdoor growers, and because of our high humidity, Powdery Mildew is everywhere.

View attachment 687670 View attachment 687671
Botrytis Mold


View attachment 687678 Powdery Mildew

The good news is that while the spores of both are capable of producing a Type I allergic reaction to those sensitive to them, neither produce know aflatoxins, so simply removing all the spores and mold material, makes it useable by removing allergens, as well as the ghastly moldy taste and smell.

Botrytis is actually the mold that produces Noble Rot in grapes, which is highly prized by wine makers for producing sweet wines. I know of no prized use of ubiquitous powdery mildew and it is known by many other names, some of them not repeatable in polite company.

Of serious concern, an not to be taken lightly, are the Aspergillus and Penicillum molds, which are hard to distinguish from one another with simple microscopic examination, so are generally classified as Pen/Asp types.

They are easy to spot, as they were named Aspergillus because their shape, consisting of a shaft with a head like the religious water flinger the priests use, called an Aspergillum.

View attachment 687675

View attachment 687676

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_fumigatus

Aspergillus is primarily a composting mold living off dead plant material, while Botrytis and Powdery Mildew target living material.

As previously noted, it has spores everywhere, but poorly cured material is the primary reason for an infestation. It likes to grow in dark damp places.

Aspergillus is the more serious actor when it comes to serious health effects, both from allergic reactions to its spores, invasive colonization, and from its aflatoxins, but Penicillium sp. is known to cause keratitis, external ear, respiratory and urinary tract infections, so it isn’t soft and cuddly.

The allergenic effects seen by Aspergillus spores include:Type I allergies; Type III hypersensitivity pneumonitis and others.

Some Aspergillus species are known to produce aflatoxins. A. fumigatus causes allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis and allergic fungal sinusitis.

Members of this genus cause a disease called Aspergillosis, which is an invasive infection, colonization, toxicoses or allergy.

Many species grow at body temperature and they are opportunistic pathogens, causing infection in individuals with compromised immune systems.

Many toxins are generated by this genus, however, the full range of effects of these toxins are not well researched at this time. They do fluoresce under ultraviolet light however, so their presence may detected by examination under a black light inspection lamp, such is used in Magnetic Particle and FPI Non-destructive Inspection techniques.

The aflatoxins will fluoresce green under the backlight and any residual solvent will fluoresce blue.

View attachment 687674

While not a mold, a bacteria anaerobic conditions created by poor curing practices promotes the growth of, and which has been found in poorly cured cannabis, is the Clostridiums.

The Clostridiums includes C botulinum causing botulism in food, and from which Botox is derived, as well as C Perfringens, which causes food poisoning and gas gangrene, as well as C Tetani, the pathogen causing tetanus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium
Soooo, now that you know what to look for, if after examining your moldy material under a microscope, you still want to recover it, here is how we remove Botrytis and Powdery Mildew filaments and spores, as well as any of the Clostridium bacteria that may be present.

Our next step is to extract the essential oil from the plant material, using either an alkane or an alcohol.

If we use hexane or an alcohol, we do the filtration before evaporating off the solvent, or if we extract with butane, we redissolve the BHO in at least ten times its volume in ethanol for filtration.

Rough filtration:

We first filter through a coffee filter to remove the gross material and then through a Whatman [HASHTAG]#1[/HASHTAG] lab filter, using a vacuum assist, to save time.
View attachment 687677

Micro filtration:

Once it has been rough filtered, we then follow up by polishing it at 0.2 microns, using a 0.2 micron syringe filter. It has a Luhr fitting, and screws on the syringe just like a needle.
View attachment 687672

In industry, I used 0.2 micron cross flow micro filtration units to scrub radio active effluent streams at up to 100 gpm, but for small needs like ours, the syringe filter suffices.

They are readily available relatively cheap on E-Bay, or at reasonable prices at American Scientific, as are the syringes.

Once we have filtered at 0.2 microns, we remove the solvent by one of several methods, and the oil will have no hint of mold flavor or taste.
Since it is the spores that cause the Type I allergic reactions, that hazard is eliminated as well.

Any Clostridiums are removed, so subsequent storage in anaerobic conditions can’t provide favorable conditions.

To repeat, filtration doesn’t remove aflatoxins, so we don’t recommend this process for mold strains that produce them.

The attached read is a good overview on some of the other things you may find in cannabis:

http://www.hempfood.com/iha/iha01205.html

December 15, 2016 at 7:53 AM

View attachment 687669



I need to know if moldy bud can be salcaged as a tincture or salve for aches and pains?

  • View attachment 687673

    Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on October 13, 2016 at 6:09 AM

    Define mold? They aren’t all created equal.
    Molds that grow on living tissue, like Powdery Mildew and Botrytis, produce no known aflatoxins, so if you filter the concentrate and alcohol solution through a 0.2 micron syringe filter, it should be good for that application.
    While they aren’t toxic, they smell and taste like mold, and some folks can have a Type 1 allergic reaction to just the spores and filaments of Botrytis.
    Composting molds growing on dead tissue on the other hand, may produce aflatoxins, and they won’t be removed by the filtration. Aflatoxins attack the central nervous system.
    They can also be carried into your body with the transdermal cannabinoids, so using as a topical isn’t a good idea either.
    Aspergillus is one of the most common composting molds, and if you look at the mold or the aflatoxins that it produces under a NDT inspection black light, it will phosphoresce green, which may give you some idea whether it’s present or the degree of the contamination.

    GW


I thought the reason for freezing was to isolate the water solubles of the cannabis and reduce chlorophyll ( the bitter taste).
:smokeit:

Great thorough response @Root, thank you for taking the time. Thank you also for identifying a couple potential new resources to reference. REP for you my man.

I guess the most important and trickiest is identifying what it is that I'm dealing with. I can't say for sure but I had assumed it was powdery white mildew but I didn't have it when the plant was alive as far as I know. It showed up while curing. I had been regularly burping the jars but I don't have any hygrometers that'll fit in my jars yet. I assumed that it was dry enough in the jar when I had sealed it up for an extended period and then noticed the damage too late. It looked hazy in the jar when I was trying to see in and when I popped the top off, a puff of whitish dust puffed out. The contents of the jar had a hint of that smell you get from clothes left in the wash for a day after the cycle ended and you forgot them.
When I said 'microscope' in the initial post, I guess I should've said something else, I was referring to my 100X loupe thingy that I use for checking trichs. I don't think I'll be able to look quite close enough to visually identify the stuff. Is there a reliable way to identify the type of mould without a microscope?

I had hoped there was some logical reason for freezing the material and iso. The whole brittle trich thing just made no sense to me since I was under the impression that the cannabinoids were dissolved. People love to say "there's lots of great info on YouTube!" but the fact is, there's a lot more garbage than 'great info' IMHO and you're playing with fire if you listen to some of them dolts.

I have to say too, it has been months since the white fuzz first showed up in my jar but it doesn't appear to have spread at all since then which seems a little strange to me. I expected it'd take over the whole thing.
 
I hear ya about the garbage on youtube and different methods on bho. I've been looking as well for something cheap,easy,and straight forward.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
 
Thats a bum deal to be that close to the finish line and have that happen..Hi Sister @Root ,awesome info SPR is an awesome reference and its a sure go to for accurate and reliable info..100% agreed that the reason for freezing is to minimize chlorophyll pickup during the process..A note to add,freezing wont kill mold( im sure you all knew that)..processing as an extract is a great way to still have a useable product. Im pretty sure @pop22 has some good info about mold/using products.We are here to help anyway we can. Keep us updated and we do have plenty of threads to walk you through the extract process!!
 
The problem with mold is less the mold itself, but the spores. You can use bud that had mold for oils BUT you need a precision filter, I believe its called a Buchner vacuum assisted filter and it filters down to 5 microns. This is the ONLY way to use bud that had mold on it. NEVER smoke it, you may inhaler spores and thats bad......

You can read more about filtering and winterizing cannabis oil on Skunk Pharm Research:
https://skunkpharmresearch.com/

here's a filter:

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/vacuum-filtering-kit



Thats a bum deal to be that close to the finish line and have that happen..Hi Sister @Root ,awesome info SPR is an awesome reference and its a sure go to for accurate and reliable info..100% agreed that the reason for freezing is to minimize chlorophyll pickup during the process..A note to add,freezing wont kill mold( im sure you all knew that)..processing as an extract is a great way to still have a useable product. Im pretty sure @pop22 has some good info about mold/using products.We are here to help anyway we can. Keep us updated and we do have plenty of threads to walk you through the extract process!!
 
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