Lighting Ceramic Metal Halide - better lighting or better marketing?

HubbaBubba · Oct 2, 2015

The hype says these bulbs can give the efficiency of HPS and longer life and a spectrum closer to sunlight including UV.

Metal halide lights have been out since the 1960s. Since the 1980's they have been improved with a Ceramic arc tube instead of Quartz so they can do more stuff better and last longer, a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶l̶e̶r̶. The mix of halides (salts) and higher pressure make a better spectrum for plants than HPS, but the bulbs don't seem be popular with growers. Bulbs cost about $70 and they need a low frequency digital ballast. 315 watt bulbs are the biggest available. Apparently higher power arc tubes tended to explode!

Here are the basics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_discharge_metal-halide_lamp

I would like to hear opinions, and it would be very interesting to hear a comparison with HPS in the same AFN grow room. Does it make a noticeable difference in your yield or quality?

HubbaBubba · Oct 2, 2015

I am reading about these fixtures for the Philips Elite Agro bulbs, any more out there?

xLEC315-228x228.jpg.pagespeed.ic.em4Uc4WEC8.jpg

https://www.monstergardens.com/Grow-Lighting/Plasma-Lighting/Sun-System-LEC-315-240-Volt,-with-Lamp
about $500 for 315 watt, is that expensive. I like how the Ballast is integrate in the reflector. All in one unit. Simple for my small grow room.

View attachment 491086
http://en.autopotstore.eu/autopot-online-store/Grow-lights/e-papillon-lighting/paillon-315 detail
About $580 for 315 watt, more expensive. (thanks @Corgy)

https://www.cycloptics.com/node/55
About $500 for 315 watt and doesn't include the bulb! Expensive, but very interesting because they claim the reflector gives even light intensity: no hot spots, no weakening towards the edges. Well the reflector looks goofy to me, but if it works....

Corgy · Oct 2, 2015

http://en.autopotstore.eu/autopot-online-store/Grow-lights/e-papillon-lighting/paillon-315 detail

Corgy · Oct 2, 2015

https://www.autoflower.org/index.ph...-g13labs-pineapple-express.46640/#post-873726

HubbaBubba · Oct 2, 2015

Corgy said:
https://www.autoflower.org/index.ph...-g13labs-pineapple-express.46640/#post-873726

Corgy you are like a cyborg reading machine. Thank you.

HubbaBubba · Oct 2, 2015

Is anybody believing this graph about the Cycloptics light with the goofy looking reflector? Hitting all the leaves with the same intensity of light seems like a really good idea, but does it actually make a difference? Why is Cycloptics the only company that thinks this is so important.

more stuff about light uniformity, but does it make a practical difference:

https://www.cycloptics.com/3d-uniformity

A4 · Oct 2, 2015

This is the one I have been eyeing. May be a little large for you, depending on sq.ft. but from what I have been reading elsewhere it will be a direct replacement for my 1k with about 35% less electricity usage and increased quality of terpenes. @Corgy I was hoping to see you in this thread! You came bearing the gift of link as well, lol. Thanks!

http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-630-light-emitting-ceramic-mh-fixture-240-v-w-3100-k-lamps

Below are some of the flower being produced on another forum I hang out at. Sick, sick, sick, resin production.

HubbaBubba · Oct 2, 2015

A4 said:
Below are some of the flower being produced

I can smell those buds right though the computer screen.

HubbaBubba · Oct 12, 2015

HubbaBubba said:
Is anybody believing this graph about the Cycloptics..... Why is Cycloptics the only company that thinks this is so important.

View attachment 491096

I thought that was a very interesting graph about the intensity pattern of grow lights.
There are discussions about shaping your canopy to fit the the light, and here is a company that is shaping the light to fit the canopy. Same intensity of light every where in the grow room, isn't that a good thing for a flat canopy or a screen of green?

For a cannabis plants shaped like a Christmas tree... wouldn't intensity patterns like this be better?

cycloptics-uniformity-jpg-491096-jpg.493134.jpg

Weakest light directly over the main cola because it is so close, and stronger towards the edges to reach the lower leaves.
The intensity at all the leaves would be closer to uniform at all heights

Why is the light pattern of grow lights opposite of the popular Christmas tree growing style?
That burns the top and starves the bottom.

I am asking for help, have I misunderstood something about lights? Am I crazy or is the whole world mad? :eyebrows:

@A4 @Corgy @stepside @Xagor @81camaro @Yozhik @BR549 @Pops @marimar @Mike-groglo @dankstyle J @paddler54

A4 · Oct 21, 2015

HubbaBubba said:
I thought that was a very interesting graph about the intensity pattern of grow lights.
There are discussions about shaping your canopy to fit the the light, and here is a company that is shaping the light to fit the canopy. Same intensity of light every where in the grow room, isn't that a good thing for a flat canopy or a screen of green?

For a cannabis plants shaped like a Christmas tree... wouldn't intensity patterns like this be better?

Weakest light directly over the main cola because it is so close, and stronger towards the edges to reach the lower leaves.
The intensity at all the leaves would be closer to uniform at all heights

Why is the light pattern of grow lights opposite of the popular Christmas tree growing style?
That burns the top and starves the bottom.

I am asking for help, have I misunderstood something about lights? Am I crazy or is the whole world mad?
@A4 @Corgy @stepside @Xagor @81camaro @Yozhik @BR549 @Pops @marimar @Mike-groglo @dankstyle J @paddler54

The light intensity is correct and the nature of the beast when dealing with HID, LED not so much because manufacturers can tailor their optics to spread the light wider instead of directing the intensity straight down. Some HID hoods are better at the spread than others. Raptor is an example of one that does a better job even out the intensity more but those things are gigantic and the 8" is only available through freight truck service. I have an OG, which has a vertical mount and directs the intensity in a tighter pattern but close to straight down. I like it better than a large spread because I will tie the main branch down and try to get better penetration to the lowers while still keeping the uppers under the lamp. It helps develop the entire plant instead of just the top half. That is the reason I can grow 6-7 foot tall plants opposed to trying to keep them around 4' or less. There are positives and negatives to everything but for the most part, looking at the 315 spread, yes their is more even coverage but the problem is your lowers are going to be severely under developed. You need some intensity to penetrate the canopy and that is where the HID really makes up the difference.

That is all just opinion and experience of course, I have no scientific evidence to back everything up.

Lighting Ceramic Metal Halide - better lighting or better marketing?

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